Kicked on Kharkov

by **Jackal** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 10:57 pm

I was playing as an axis and almost the whole game i was graying out the allies first flag by hidding in the water. Then by the end of the map i was kicked and the guys on teamspeak said that i was kicked for a "map exploit". Then the admin came on from the allies channel, not sure who it was sounded like buliwyf (sorry dont recognize all voices yet) and told me that it was impossible to kill me. Yet i was killed there plenty of times by modyna and Vice9, seemed as if they were the only ones that knew how to kill me. If its a map exploit i wont do it again, just want to make sure.

by **Vamprey** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 12:04 am

I eagerly await an admin response on this one. :freak:

Never before have I heard anyone in any way suggest Jackal's play was less than honorable. There is firm evidence yes?:confused:

by **Jackal** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 12:20 am

personally i dont think its a "map exploit" since i know iam able to kill anyone that does the samething. All you do is put your head in the water so you are less visible. If you agree its an exploit wont do it again.

by **{CN}Doomfarer** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 5:06 am

With something that affects the gameplay as drastically as your tactic did, we were seriously concerned about how to treat it. Kicking and speculating about it afterwards is NOT how we want to approach these kinds of problems. So we have pulled Kharkov from the rotation in order to avoid any further speculation and frustration. Jackal, I hope this incident doesn't change your gameplay style, or the frequency that you display it on the ECGN servers. Hope to see you on the battlefield soon.

by **Tommy Boy** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 8:44 am

I think that it is brutal that he was kicked for this...and based on the reaction on TS last night when it happened, there are a lot of regulars who agree that kicking Jackal for a commonly-used tactic that is NOT an exploit.

Do all of the admins agree with this ruling?

by **General Apathy** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 11:24 am

I think that it was just so hard to kill him there really made it frustrating. Kharkov is a fun map, but so often lately, it turns into a massacre. I'm cool with it being out of rotation.

I was using free cam to see if there was someone under the bridge. It was "almost" impossible to get a hit on him. While I was observing I counted 9 grenades dropped very near him. If he was not so submurged or there was no water, he would have died. (Please note: I'm not saying this was an exploit, just pointing out what we saw.)

I say let's forgive and forget and move on without Kharkov.

by **hightimber** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 11:35 am

I thought this was a common 'strategy' on this map. I did it myself the other night with admins on and no one said a thing on TeamSpeak. This same 'tactic' can also be used to gray flags on other maps.

by **Buliwyf** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 11:59 am

Fellas,

this is not as clear cut as a few of you are making it by calling it "wrong" and"brutal"

This issue is currently being discussed as it was on the opposing side with 2 admins.

The issue will be dealt with. This is an admin issue at the moment, so please let's not add anymore fuel to the fire.

by **the_slog** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 12:20 pm

If this is ruled an exploit, does that mean you can't swim with your head down?

(I assume he was in the water with his head submerged)

by **Hellacious** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 12:52 pm

No dont take Kharkov out. That is my favorit map hint hint the wespe me love Kharkov.

by **hightimber** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 1:09 pm

Originally posted by Hellacious
No dont take Kharkov out. That is my favorit map hint hint the wespe me love Kharkov.

Well, logically, if they take out Kharkov for this, they'd also be inclined to remove the other maps where this tactic is employed.

by **MMmmGood** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 2:12 pm

I was playing that night.

It was frustrating because we couldnt see the usual hump of the back when you were facing down.

We had looked for 5-7 minutes when someone floated into the river in freecam and saw you there. Then we chucked at least 12 nades in the river before we got you, the first time.

Its a valid tactic, dont get me wrong there, but we couldnt see you and had no way of knowing that you were down there until someone went in freecam.

Now while I think that the kick you received was over the top, the tactic you were using, while you thought it was fine, coming from the other teams perspective came out like a map exploit because we couldnt see you in the water.

by **Bluenoser NC** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 3:25 pm

Expacks people. Drop them all around the waterline and no problems.

by **Jackal** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 5:57 pm

thanx for all the replys....you were having problems killing me because i was a medic. After i heard 3 grenades thrown at me i immediatley got out the water on that little wall that you can stand on and healed myself and went back straight into the water while the other person went to the ammo box. The easiest way to kill a person whos hidding there is just to go straight down there and either expac them or just stand on the little wall and kill them, atleast thats what i do when someone is hidding there and it works.

by **Bullhead** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 7:37 pm

Jackal, as has been stated, you were DAMN hard to find, even if we knew you were down there....only by looking at exactly the right angle (or as Doomy discovered, with the sniper scope) could you be seen, or even have a tag show up. Now, the prior night you had done this on the other flag (east) when you were playing as allied, and I was axis. Someone else found you, and I thought that was a pretty damn clever (and devious!) tactic. But last night was especially frustrating b/c we couldn't seem to kill you, regardless of expacks, grenades, etc.....You being a medic certainly helps to explain alot of it, although one good (read: accurate) grenade throw SHOULD kill instantly. I think what really got us (the allies) was that you kept doing it over and over again. That map is DAMN frustrating when you lose all the flags, and I think everyone's temper had boiled over by the time we discovered your "trick".

Now, I'm not accusing you of cheating, or even using an exploit. I think it's a damned clever trick (I'd certainly never thought of hiding IN the water like that). However, the difficulty involved with defending against it (while avoid sniper fire from the middle/hill/east) makes this border on an exploit,, or at least gives it the feeling (to the people suffering from it) equivelant to base camping....It's not illegal, but sure kills the gameplay for the others.

Also, I'd have to say that kicking you was not what I wanted to see, and am truly sorry that it came to that. Hopefully the admins can figure something out that will appease all sides, without taking out every map where something like this is possible....

Anyway, just my 2 cents as one of last nights "victims"

Kicked on Kharkov

Kicked on Kharkov

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