unlag(shrub) vs antilag(osp/default)?

[Jun1oR]

I wanted to see what some of you guys/girls think about possibly swapping unlag for antilag. I have brought it up with MAA about some of the issues I believe to be caused by shrubmod's unlag compensation. Below is what I discussed with MAA on IRC.

<Jun1oR> Would you be willing to drop unlag for antilag for a brief experimemt?
<Jun1oR> I believe unlag to cause bullet registration issues
<Jun1oR> but it doesn't seem to affect everyone
<Jun1oR> I doubt players are able to exploit the unlag but the difference between osp and shrub is significant
<Jun1oR> most people complain about hackers but in reality I think this is just the result of unlag
<Jun1oR> for example the other day, b007y was kneeling in a doorway not moving at all and I fired alomst 10 shots into his back and he just turned around and killed me with ease. Server reported he had 127hp remaining
<Jun1oR> I asked him if he took any damage and he replied no
<Jun1oR> its easy for players to pull head shots and kill frag quickly when their not taking damage
<Jun1oR> so in 1vs1 situations it may appear to a player that he is hitting the enemy but its not registering and allowing the opponent to return fire without being hit
<Jun1oR> unlag also seems to favor high pingers, low to normal pings shouldn't be pentalized for the high pingers
<Jun1oR> for example, continuing to take damage seconds after you are no longer in the line of fire
<Jun1oR> not that antilag is any better but I think antilag is more consistent and easier to compensate
<Jun1oR> if you are willing I would like to do this without alerting anyone other than the admins
<Jun1oR> I also think it might cause delayed registration as well
<Jun1oR> last example, you appear not to take damage at first and then all of a sudden take damage at once
<Jun1oR> appearing to the player that he was killed with only 1 or 2 shots

Now if any of you have played OSP with some of the skilled ECGN players you have most likely noticed game play is a little more fair than on Shrub. Shrub also has helmet protection, the first headshot does 25 damage so 2 headshot kills shouldn't be possible when wearing a helmet with 140hp (correct me if I'm wrong).

MAA briefly disabled unlag and enabled anitlag for me while some the skilled players were present and the difference was night and day to me. No longer did players run right through my fire to kill me.

Let me know what you think and now that I brought it to your attention if you notice these issues as well.

[pingrage Profile]

Has someone disabled /unlag on the server?

If so way to kill it for anyone with a high ping!

[Jun1oR]

We have temporarily disabled unlag and enabled antilag as a test. I believe unlag to cause registration issues. I suggest you look into tweaking other cvars to compensate if you are experiencing issues but most likely you no longer have that handicap that unlag has given you over the years. Since you made this public I will move the rtcw admin thread about this issue to the public forum you everyone to comment.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=26558

[pingrage Profile]

If we wish to lose half of the players with 150+ pings by all means disable unlag.
and you cannot compare shurb and osp.

The server has had the setting for years, why change it now?

"Cvars:
g_unlag default: 0 turn on/off lag compensation

Commands (client-side):
unlag

When g_unlag is on (1), lag compensation is enabled. The server will keep a
record of the past half-second of player positions. When a player shoots,
the server "rewinds" players to the position the shooter most likely saw them
at based on their ping, and the server calculates hits based on those rewound
positions. This virtually eliminates the effects of lag, allowing players
with pings below 500 ms to not need to lead their shots.

When g_unlag is on, players can turn off lag compensation calculations for
their shots using the /unlag command. /unlag 0 will turn off lag compensation,
while /unlag 1 will re-enable it if they had previously turned it off. Players
may also use /unlag to check the status of their lag compensation.

The unlag code was written by Neil Toronto and adapted for use in RTCW."

http://bisclavret.eu/readme.txt

[Jun1oR]

If we wish to lose half of the players with 150+ pings by all means disable unlag.
and you cannot compare shurb and osp.

The server has had the setting for years, why change it now?

I don't want to turn this into flame thread but I was specing players with 150+ pings today and they didn't seem to have any issues fragging.

I also seen parcher go 15/17 against mediocre players.

I also notice another normal ping player wondering why he was playing so bad today without realizing the changes we have made.

Coincidence? I'm sure we lost players because of the accusations of hackers.

[Jun1oR]

I have read the documentation you posted and it doesn't mean that unlag isn't flawed.... Shrub is a beta and we do not have the source to look over or update.

[pingrage Profile]

If we wish to lose half of the players with 150+ pings by all means disable unlag.
and you cannot compare shurb and osp.

The server has had the setting for years, why change it now?

I don't want to turn this into flame thread but I was specing players with 150+ pings today and they didn't seem to have any issues fragging.

I also seen parcher go 15/17 against mediocre players.

I also notice another normal ping player wondering why he was playing so bad today without realizing the changes we have made.

Coincidence? We lost a lot of players because of the accusations of hackers.

Well i certainly noticed a difference and i have played for 10 years +

its removes the level playing field disabling unlag.

[Jun1oR]

If we wish to lose half of the players with 150+ pings by all means disable unlag.
and you cannot compare shurb and osp.

The server has had the setting for years, why change it now?

I don't want to turn this into flame thread but I was specing players with 150+ pings today and they didn't seem to have any issues fragging.

I also seen parcher go 15/17 against mediocre players.

I also notice another normal ping player wondering why he was playing so bad today without realizing the changes we have made.

Coincidence? We lost a lot of players because of the accusations of hackers.

Well i certainly noticed a difference and i have played for 10 years +

its removes the level playing field disabling unlag.

You're missing the whole point of the changes. There was never a level playing field with unlag enabled for any player regardless of ping. Im sorry your shots can no longer be "rewound" and dumped on me all at once.


This is not permanent and only a test.

[pingrage Profile]

That last sentence makes no sense

[parcher Profile]

I dont agree with this change at all. Shrub unlag worked very well and was by far the best unlag system ive ever played under in any game. It helps both low ping players and high ping players register the bullets they are shooting while actually aiming at the enemy.

If you disable unlag, anyone over 20 ping wont be able to hit anything and will just spray bullets everywhere hoping for the best.

Ping in rtcw due to the old netcode, I believe, is a huge limiting factor for players. Unlag was able to give all players the most fair playing field and allowed the skill ceiling to be very high.

Do not go back to the dark ages.

If you are not hitting bullets with shrub with unlag, then you are not aiming well. No unlag system is perfect but the shrub system was by far the best with very minimal drawbacks.

Additionally, it never gave high ping players an advantage. High ping was always more difficult than low ping. You would get hit around corners more with high ping with unlag, but at least you land bullets where you were shooting. While it had VERY minimal impact on low ping players.

[B]

Coincidence? I'm sure we lost players because of the accusations of hackers.

Ya? who?

[pingrage Profile]

Coincidence? I'm sure we lost players because of the accusations of hackers.

Ya? who?

MSb you quote is wrong. Jun1or wrote that, not me.

[pingrage Profile]

I dont agree with this change at all. Shrub unlag worked very well and was by far the best unlag system ive ever played under in any game. It helps both low ping players and high ping players register the bullets they are shooting while actually aiming at the enemy.

If you disable unlag, anyone over 20 ping wont be able to hit anything and will just spray bullets everywhere hoping for the best.

Ping in rtcw due to the old netcode, I believe, is a huge limiting factor for players. Unlag was able to give all players the most fair playing field and allowed the skill ceiling to be very high.

Do not go back to the dark ages.

If you are not hitting bullets with shrub with unlag, then you are not aiming well. No unlag system is perfect but the shrub system was by far the best with very minimal drawbacks.

Additionally, it never gave high ping players an advantage. High ping was always more difficult than low ping. You would get hit around corners more with high ping with unlag, but at least you land bullets where you were shooting. While it had VERY minimal impact on low ping players.

100 percent agree and people think i hack? Seriously noobs these days.

[pingrage Profile]

my experience of playing with unlag off is disappointing I have to predict where a play will move in order to aim in front of them to get a kill if i am lucky.

F2 to unlag being off

[Jun1oR]

I dont agree with this change at all. Shrub unlag worked very well and was by far the best unlag system ive ever played under in any game. It helps both low ping players and high ping players register the bullets they are shooting while actually aiming at the enemy.

If you disable unlag, anyone over 20 ping wont be able to hit anything and will just spray bullets everywhere hoping for the best.

Ping in rtcw due to the old netcode, I believe, is a huge limiting factor for players. Unlag was able to give all players the most fair playing field and allowed the skill ceiling to be very high.

Do not go back to the dark ages.

If you are not hitting bullets with shrub with unlag, then you are not aiming well. No unlag system is perfect but the shrub system was by far the best with very minimal drawbacks.

Additionally, it never gave high ping players an advantage. High ping was always more difficult than low ping. You would get hit around corners more with high ping with unlag, but at least you land bullets where you were shooting. While it had VERY minimal impact on low ping players.

Really server is much better for me and some others too. Everything you stated is your opinion and from what I gather you jump through proxies and vpn's so maybe that's why you need the unlag. Unlag is just as old, have you seen the source? Can you tell me its perfect code? It's just this magical alithogram that makes everything perfect for everyone cause I can tell you for 100% that its causing issues. Read my first post.

Pingrage your ping is 350 I'm sorry but this is not about one persons gameplay, mine included.

All I ask is for you guys to give the changes a chance before making a honest decision. I don't expect the higher pingers to ever agree.