Whoa now..

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devnull

Whoa now..

Postby devnull » Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:16 pm

First off, I'd have to say I am greatly disappointed in the maturity of the admins for your servers compared to your support team. Our server is a nice server, but all good credit to it is being lost in terms of the PR around here.

First off today, I'm NVA on irving and our spawn tunnel is near USA main. Lots of men spawned there, we had the f4, we were doing ok. Now here comes Iron Monkey (NVA) and exppacks the tunnel. Multiple people complain, and does Slayer or the other ECGN folk care? Heck no. Slayer was USA, why would he care that NVA's tunnel is gone? :roll:

Next map, I'm flying an f4. I landed to repair and rearm, and upon taking off I see Slayer in a ZSU in our main inching closer. I move as far as possible before taking off, and what does he do? RAMS ME! I respawn and blow the ZSU, with him not in it, up. Sure, that didn't help the team, but surely I was not being rammed by it again. So he says WTF and I say 'You rammed me with that!' and I get banned. Really nice..I'd appreciate an unban.

And, this is not the first time crap like this has happened. I don't feel like re-capping the recent situations, but all in all I play and keep to myself for the most part. I am not a damned noob, and there is no reason to act in such an immature manner. I've been tked for helos by ECGN at least a half a dozen times in recent memory, and I can't recall the last time I tked for a vehicle (read: 1942), yet I'm the one in the wrong? Do I whine bitch and moan unless something as drastic as the above occurs? Did I earn a ban in any way? No, I do not think so..Not this time. :confused:
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Postby Mr. Slayer » Wed Aug 11, 2004 5:26 pm

Eggs-

I wasn't in the ZSU. DevilDog had just stolen it and brought it there. I watched the whole thing while I was waiting for the huey slick to spawn. I am very confused at how you can confuse my name with DevilDog's. Please don't accuse me of things I didn't do. I said "WTF" because I wanted to know why you blew up the ZSU. At no time was I ever in the ZSU.

Also I watched you run into the ZSU with the phantom killing quite a few TeamMate, including DevilDog.

Then, after you ran into the ZSU with the phantom (and died) you came back and blew up the ZSU with a LAW! There was nobody in the ZSU at the time. DevilDog had spent a good amount of time bringing the ZSU to our main. There was NO reason for you to blow it up.

On another note, I didn't ban you. Another admin did. Since I did not ban you, I can not decide to unban you. Wait for the admin that banned you to reply. I'm just clearing this up for you. :)

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Postby Sgt. Quentin » Wed Aug 11, 2004 5:56 pm

You have several Issues here. 1 Iron Monkey did something wrong and it was slayers fault? Was it mentioned ? Did you get a reply? Are you on ts?

You run into and then blow up a stolen enemy vehicle? you tked several people and got banned?

You have been tked by ECGN regulars? Who, when, what map?
We can't ban postfacto but we will keep an eye on these players if you give names.

Attacking Admins is not going to help your cause. Blaming others s not going to help your cause.

A statement such as I'm sorry I acted Poorly might.
Greatness is not where we stand, but in what direction We are moving. -Oliver Wendel Holmes

devnull

Postby devnull » Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:08 pm

I coulda swore the tag showed you, Slayer, in the ZSU and you're the one that WTFed when I blew it. I apologize for mistaken you and DevilDog. Whomever drove it to main did indeed a good thing, until he drove all over the runway with it. The runway is not even en route bringing a vehicle into that base, so no dice there. I'll admit my LAWing of it wasn't in the right, but that makes me angry when there are 4 people camping in the hanger, I successfully land it and repair, then to get rammed upon takeoff and have the f4 taken by the waiting 'campers'. I understand he took the time to get it there, but that doesn't make it OK and good to ram it into aircraft on the runway one bit. The only person that died in that crash besides myself was (I *think*) Devildog, whom hopped out of the zsu right when it was in the center of the runway.

I don't keep time and date record of when people act lame..I shouldn't have to do more record keeping when I'm trying to play a friggin game.

Iron Monkey's was just an example of the shoddy actions that happen on behalf of the admins sometimes there. He was banned and unbanned for blowing a spawn crate how long ago? Multiple ECGN members in game, and he announces he will blow the tunnel when it's deployed because he is angry. And what does he do? Does it. People complain. Slayer says be quiet. NVA loses.

Boils down to this. I was not at fault in the ordeal - I rectified it by ensuring nobody would play lameass with the zsu and park it in front of a taking off f4 again.

And if you feel this is an attack on yourself or another admin, you are very, very wrong. I already attempted to bring such issues to the attention of ECGN staff privately, but only after today's totally uncalled for TK and ban I felt the need to bring it directly to those whom did it. If you feel offended or attacked over this post you need to deal with that anger elsewhere..I'm merely trying to bring resolution to this crapball of a situation.

And no, no TS, my mic input died and my new sound card is en route. I don't see the reason I would need to be on TS to avoid this? Surely any complaint would have been met with the same reaction as in-game chat is always taken, plus the lag seeing as I only have a 144kbit line. Meh.

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Postby Sgt. Quentin » Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:21 pm

I am not taking this personal. I am trying to boil this down to specific issues.

Iron monkey was claiming he would blow the spawn. global or team? If an admin is watching they can ban if it is hear say they should not ban. if he begins watching he is not going to announce it to everyone because the ofending player will change his methods.

the airfield is a seperate issue. it will be dealt with by the admin who kicked you.

The tk's for aircraft -if you have a name I can watch them. I would even kick Devil Dog for tking on purpose and he would do the same.

TS is very helpful in these situations and it is heard by everyone on. it is not ignored like ingame spam.
Greatness is not where we stand, but in what direction We are moving. -Oliver Wendel Holmes

devnull

Postby devnull » Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:46 pm

So many people say they ignore the in-game spam..I guess I'm just more used to paying attention to that and not using comms.

Anyway, Monkey's ordeal was said globally and after it was done he even admitted it, globally. AFAIK chat logging isn't present anyway, but the thing that bothered me the most there is that I've been kicked at least 3 times recently, twice because someone told someone I might be camping (whatever) and once for firing back at a friendly that shot me. Personal admission and multiple complaints couldn't get him kicked/banned though..THAT's what bothers me about the situation and in relation to the huge over-reaction against me vs nothing for a far worse action with him.

Here's part of my note to someone here about crap that happened a few days past..

---
Last night, "ecgn jim" or someone close tked me for a helo then kicked me for "camping"..When I rejoined and questioned it I was kicked yet again..Then later, I expacked a helopad watching it for enemies..3 tickets left in the game (we totally lost) and I blow it with a teammate a bit too close (literally) and the next map, a few minutes into it (after I was in first, again, too) I get kicked for it. So whatever.

Tonight, I've been piloting mostly transport for the past two hours. Game warden we won in less than 2 minutes because I zoomed a slick full of men to each flag. Is that camping? I'd say not. Hastings comes up, and I fly a whole two birds the whole map. Towards the end, I'm out sniping the nva base near our main and after running dry on ammo I get killed. I respawn meters from a huey and decide what the heck, I'll fly a bit again. So I get about 50m in the air from main and I get admin-killed by Mr Slayer, claiming I was camping. Someone 'told' him I was camping. Upon respawning, look who's in my huey now..Slayer! Oook, if that's not getting lame enough, he ignores my requests to discuss what the hell happened. He did offer it back, but that was not the point.
---
It isn't any one of those things that upsets me but it is when the things happen consistantly that I feel something should be said..It ties into today with some admins being a bit trigger happy and not holding themselves to the same standards they expect everyone else to uphold. I don't personally agree with the extent of some of your server rules, but I do do my best to adhere to every one while playing in the server. It would be nice to see the ones habitually breaking their own rules to set a good example, that's all. :)

devnull

Postby devnull » Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:55 pm

And I must add, I'm not a bad or mean person even! I'm generally nice and am very much a team player - not some wandering pubbing noob. Normally I wouldn't have even bothered to voice what happened outside of private discussion nor dispute such a ban, but a lot of the ECGN guys are great players and it's a gigantic server with the best ping my ISP's current routing will barf up. I'm not a threat to anyone but those whom want to ram things into my airplane or act equally as dim.
I've thought over a few times if the ZSU crash could have been an accident, as well as before I commited myself to take-off trying to evade the zsu as close to the fence as possible, but either somebody totally was not paying any attention at all and owed an apology or somebody was being tardish. The damned thing was even facing my plane leaving the hanger when it started rolling onto the runway.. I mean heck, I had just landed and turned around..Hard to miss a plane back out of the hanger next to you, have to do some half-assed awkward turnaround because you are in the way, and then attempt taking off......

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Postby Mr. Slayer » Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:12 pm

Originally posted by devnull
Tonight, I've been piloting mostly transport for the past two hours. Game warden we won in less than 2 minutes because I zoomed a slick full of men to each flag. Is that camping? I'd say not. Hastings comes up, and I fly a whole two birds the whole map. Towards the end, I'm out sniping the nva base near our main and after running dry on ammo I get killed. I respawn meters from a huey and decide what the heck, I'll fly a bit again. So I get about 50m in the air from main and I get admin-killed by Mr Slayer, claiming I was camping. Someone 'told' him I was camping. Upon respawning, look who's in my huey now..Slayer! Oook, if that's not getting lame enough, he ignores my requests to discuss what the hell happened. He did offer it back, but that was not the point.
I did not mean to admin-kill you, I meant to kick you if that clears anything up. You had been on the airfield the entire game. People on TS were telling me to kick you because you were taking the huey and being useless with it. I didn't kill you for that I killed you for camping. Which you were. I don't know why I killed you instead of kick. Total mistake. And the reason I got the Huey after you? Well it was there. When I killed you I didn't even know you were in a huey. I strongly suggest that you wait for the admin that temp banned you to post. :)

Edit: And please never hesitate to tell me in-game if someone is doing something wrong. I must not have seen your complaints while I was in-game today. But that is not my fault that he was blowing up your tunnel even if he really was. Please don't blame me for things like that. Also please don't accuse me of killing you for the chopper. Riling up the whole server like that doesn't help at all. How can you say I ignored your requests to hell happened? I told you why. "Chopper Camping" :)
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Postby Sgt. Quentin » Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:24 pm

I understand your frustration. I appear to be aggravating the situation but my intention is really trying to help get to the bottom of this. I am trying to get as much information as possible. Unfortunately the chat is not logged in BFV yet or we could pull it up and clear the air.

Slayer is a good Kid and a fair admin when he is on with me in the evenings. It seems to be popular this week to bash him but he is filling a gap that is greatly needed right now. If he wasn't here there may be no one admining during the day. Just a few months ago I, along with every other admin, was bombarded with complaints that the server was unplayable during the day. Now it just seems a few people feel calls were unfair or hasty. I know when the server fills up with smackers it becomes infectious and even good players act out. The admins start kicking for every infraction trying to restore order and good players feel the wrath. I hope this was the case, you feel bad when you miss something as blatant as killing a mobile spawn and you work to fix it. If someone is upset in chat we start watching, but you also become a target to see if you were instigating the problem and pointing fingers. Not that you personally have done this to my knowledge but it is a regular tactic of smackers here.
Greatness is not where we stand, but in what direction We are moving. -Oliver Wendel Holmes

devnull

Postby devnull » Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:33 pm

But I was sniping for at least half of the map, on the ground. I literally had just taken off in the huey, with a gunner, fresh from dieing as a sniper in a spot that I had even WALKED to because there was nothing to drive or fly anywhere. That is EXACTLY what I mean - All it takes is for someone to claim someone is doing something and you go ahead and take action? But only sometimes? I bet someone wanted the gunship I grabbed, or just wasn't happy that they didn't get one? You couldn't have even tried to confirm that I was doing that? Seriously, you would have been bored as hell watching me try to snipe, and if taking off in a gunship WITH a gunner is being useless well I don't know what else to say about that...
You told me chopper camping, but I wasn't chopper camping..not even an 'oh sorry' and reconsideration of the source? Not asking the team? Come on man...I know it wasn't your fault he blew it, but he did warn the entire server, and they complained, and then he did it, and at least myself and two others complained, and then he admitted it, and your response was 'be quiet'. What is that? :/

devnull

Postby devnull » Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:37 pm

Originally posted by Sgt. Quentin
I understand your frustration. I appear to be aggravating the situation but my intention is really trying to help get to the bottom of this. I am trying to get as much information as possible. Unfortunately the chat is not logged in BFV yet or we could pull it up and clear the air.

Slayer is a good Kid and a fair admin when he is on with me in the evenings. It seems to be popular this week to bash him but he is filling a gap that is greatly needed right now. If he wasn't here there may be no one admining during the day. Just a few months ago I, along with every other admin, was bombarded with complaints that the server was unplayable during the day. Now it just seems a few people feel calls were unfair or hasty. I know when the server fills up with smackers it becomes infectious and even good players act out. The admins start kicking for every infraction trying to restore order and good players feel the wrath. I hope this was the case, you feel bad when you miss something as blatant as killing a mobile spawn and you work to fix it. If someone is upset in chat we start watching, but you also become a target to see if you were instigating the problem and pointing fingers. Not that you personally have done this to my knowledge but it is a regular tactic of smackers here.


Wouldn't the logical step be to recruit some clan admins that have ECGN-hosted servers, like myself, that play on the pub server every day, for admin over someone just because he fits the time slot? :eek: I don't really have a problem with Slayer other than the weak calls I've seen lately..I know no-one's perfect and I've kicked or banned under a false impression/assumption myself from time to time, but enough's enough..Relax a bit and just look. Sure it takes a few seconds of playing time away, even -2 if you need to suicide, but that's what comes with being an admin..
And I really am sorry I mixed you up with the ZSU guy Slayer, but once you disconnect from the server there's nothing, not even console log or anything to check back on. Nothing personal against ya, just need to chill....:beer:


Anyway, nah you aren't making it worse at least in my eyes..I just clarified where I stand on it and what happened..Maybe I come across really angry or abrasive but that's just how I am I guess.

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Postby Sgt. Quentin » Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:53 pm

Ok. Lets try this fresh start. The ban was temp it is gone now.
I'll deal with that.

Please join ts when your sound card comes in.

If you are having problems pm me or any other admin. please don't take matters into your own hands and tk.
We are working out some kinks and having a pissing match in the forums won't help.

Slayer really does a good Job. He donates a great deal of his day to helping enhance game play here. everyone botches some calls. Cut him someslack.
Greatness is not where we stand, but in what direction We are moving. -Oliver Wendel Holmes

devnull

Postby devnull » Wed Aug 11, 2004 8:09 pm

You won't catch me regularly in TS cos as I said I only have a 144kbit pipe..I can stand a small group of people but once three or four hit transmit too close together there goes my ping to 1000. :) I'll drop by though and we can discuss this a bit more or just say hi, whatever, soon.

Thanks for removing the ban - I assure you if you play with me some you'll get to know my complaints are not unwarrented..I don't have much for a temper and the only things that get me going are blatent friendly attacks or related team-hurting actions. Consider the slack cut - As I said it's not personal or anything, and I am an admin for a much larger, more structured, online game along with a vietnam server..I know it's impossible to judge intentions sometimes and well slack needs to be cut both ways. :) I do agree that lots of tards get kicked promptly and the server is usually kept fairly clean, but these misfires make the game very non-enjoyable by the victims..Just as much as the tards, if not more at times.

One big suggestion is to enable voting - Let us players govern ourselves if/when possible/needed. With 44 players the percentage needed to kick could be set lower as well, as if 11 people (1/4th of the server) feel someone should be kicked really that person should be kicked..So instead of needing Slayer or someone to read chat spam all the time, people could throw up a vote. At the least it would get the attention of an admin that someone wants somebody kicked..*shrug*

Look forward to fragging you..er with you. :)

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Postby SGT DEVILDOG » Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:28 am

Devnull, The reason that I only gave you a temp ban. Was because I have seen your name on the server many times and you are a good player and not a tard. I could not believe my eyes when you lawed the ZSU that I had spent so much time in stealing and driving all the way back to main. First, I parked it next to the runway, and got out. I saw all kinds of commotion in the hanger and thought I should move it. I went to get back in but I ended up in top as a tard had already jumped in. He started driving it towards the middle of the runway as the F4 took off. I did not get his name as this all took place in a matter of seconds. Then I was tked by you with a law. That is why you got a temp ban.

You being an Admin on a bigger server should know better than approaching this matter in an attacking manner. 1. Did you TK the ZSU and me? Yes. The proper approach would have been to say I messed up and I am sorry. Not Slayer did this and Iron Monkey did that. Was it anyone else’s fault for your actions? No. I have seen this many times on all of the ECGN servers. An admin’s name gets brought up a few times. Then it becomes all his fault for everyone else’s actions. In the future please worry about yourself and your actions and not other people. We will police the admins here, not the players. Hope to see you in game soon

P.S. In the future if you have problems please PM me and I will look into it.

*EDIT* HA HA why would I spend 5 mins to steal and drive the ZSU to our main. Just to ram it into your F4 and lose both. If I was joining to ram u I would have grabbed the tank. I could have rammed you 5-6 times in the time it took me to get the ZSU back to main. I can count on 1 hand how many times I have even flown the F4.I am a chopper whore;)
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[img]DevilDog
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devnull

Postby devnull » Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:56 am

I didn't tk you, the explosion from the crash that got me got you at the same time - ZSU was empty when I LAWed it. I wasn't aiming for the tard that got me, whomever he was, but the ZSU had just pulled in and it looked like the driver never got out til after he rammed me, so I took away his toy as he did mine. Too bad it was yours, though, and he had jacked it. :(

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