Spawn Killers!!!
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- Sir Fartsalot
Spawn Killers!!!
by Sir Fartsalot » Sun Oct 20, 2002 11:54 pm
Was playing 1 am Eastern, Oct 21st. Spawn killers named spawncamper (there appeared to be 2 players with the same name). Spawn killing takes no skill, and I will have no part playing on a server where this occurs.
Spawn Killing and other atrocities...:P
by Lord ZOG » Mon Oct 21, 2002 9:02 am
I see people complaining alot about spawn killing on the server (I see people complaining about everything and anything that gets them killed actually).
As far as I'm concerned spawn killing is unavoidable in certain circumstances (Allies running through Axis spawn), but it's perfectly acceptable to air strike the forward bunker and the beach. Not only is it acceptable, it's going to happen. There's no way to realistically stop it, so it's going to happen. Anytime you get that many people on a server there's bound to be a few "questionable" tactics practiced.
What I don't approve of is people camping in the spawn point with a flamer and just gassing people as they appear....or standing outside the Axis spawn and flaming the doorway. This is lower than cheating at Chutes and Ladders against your mom. It's still going to happen because you get the occassional pre-pube punk on the server who has to prove his mettle in any way possible. In some ways it's ineffective because of the short period of invulnerability the new spawners have, but it's still a pain in the butt.
I've played on a few ladders where the opposition has made a point of camping at the Axis spawn and flaming the doorway. Scummy? Yes. Effective? Yes. Allowed...unfortunately, yes.
As far as I'm concerned spawn killing is unavoidable in certain circumstances (Allies running through Axis spawn), but it's perfectly acceptable to air strike the forward bunker and the beach. Not only is it acceptable, it's going to happen. There's no way to realistically stop it, so it's going to happen. Anytime you get that many people on a server there's bound to be a few "questionable" tactics practiced.
What I don't approve of is people camping in the spawn point with a flamer and just gassing people as they appear....or standing outside the Axis spawn and flaming the doorway. This is lower than cheating at Chutes and Ladders against your mom. It's still going to happen because you get the occassional pre-pube punk on the server who has to prove his mettle in any way possible. In some ways it's ineffective because of the short period of invulnerability the new spawners have, but it's still a pain in the butt.
I've played on a few ladders where the opposition has made a point of camping at the Axis spawn and flaming the doorway. Scummy? Yes. Effective? Yes. Allowed...unfortunately, yes.
Lord ZOG
"Well hello Mister Fancypants. Well, I've got news for you pal, you ain't leadin' but two things: Jack and shit... and Jack just left town."
"Well hello Mister Fancypants. Well, I've got news for you pal, you ain't leadin' but two things: Jack and shit... and Jack just left town."
- IgmanStein
by IgmanStein » Mon Oct 21, 2002 9:45 am
Running through a spawn and killing players that just spawned is fine and is not camping (it might piss people off but so what). If you sit there WAITING for players to spawn then that is cheap and is definitely spawn camping. There are those that see this as a valid tactic and it is certainly effective but is so lame. My $.02
..
by aleste » Mon Oct 21, 2002 3:47 pm
I see 2 different situations of spawn camping.
1st Situation. Your team controls your home spawn that can't be taken, and a few others..
Well don't spawn at your home base if they got a bunch of people there.
If you're smart you'd go and take the rest of the spawns, since half of their team is at the base. I actually like when people camp my teams spawn.
Makes it so much easier to win.
then the second situation.
Your team controls NO spawns other than your home base.
Well if your team ends up in this situation, then the attackers having no skill is false, since they are kicking your ass over the whole map.
If you think I'm going to sit back and give you time to organize your forces and mount a concentrated attack on one of our bases.. you either have no idea what a war is, or you want a carebear server that has a no can't attack me zone.
Spawn and die like a good enemy so the round and/or map will end and maybe their will be a challenge.
Spawn killing is a viable tactic, and in most cases helps your team when an enemy does it, because you'll capture all the other spawns or lose and not be humiliated anymore.
Any server that kicks spawn campers is going to lose 95% of its players who get annoyed at using valid tactics.
1st Situation. Your team controls your home spawn that can't be taken, and a few others..
Well don't spawn at your home base if they got a bunch of people there.
If you're smart you'd go and take the rest of the spawns, since half of their team is at the base. I actually like when people camp my teams spawn.
Makes it so much easier to win.
then the second situation.
Your team controls NO spawns other than your home base.
Well if your team ends up in this situation, then the attackers having no skill is false, since they are kicking your ass over the whole map.
If you think I'm going to sit back and give you time to organize your forces and mount a concentrated attack on one of our bases.. you either have no idea what a war is, or you want a carebear server that has a no can't attack me zone.
Spawn and die like a good enemy so the round and/or map will end and maybe their will be a challenge.
Spawn killing is a viable tactic, and in most cases helps your team when an enemy does it, because you'll capture all the other spawns or lose and not be humiliated anymore.
Any server that kicks spawn campers is going to lose 95% of its players who get annoyed at using valid tactics.
I knew it...
by Lord ZOG » Mon Oct 21, 2002 8:18 pm
I knew someone would somehow justify Spawn Killing. The world is just too big a place for everyone to think logically.
I say you're right...just like that Chutes and Ladders game with mom. Kick her ass, screw her! It's her fault for not catching me cheating!
If a team is in fact 'kicking another team's ass' then you're right, I wouldn't expect them to stop at the forward bunker (we're talking beach map here).
This is also a public server...the quality of a team varies from second to second. I'm not responsible for my team's lack of skill. I pick a side and start kicking ass if I can.
If some other team is going to concentrate on spawn killing I'd hope I have a few studs on my team that could sneak by and possibly win the game easily...
...try that with a 64 man server.
I expect one or two, or maybe even three spawn campers per round, and I know they'll last about 30 seconds once a half dozen or so people spawn at their feet. If a whole team is assembling a co-coordinated Spawn Killing effort then you got to wonder about their thought process. Sure it could work. Sure there's a possibility that a team, with skilled players, could eventually work their way into setting up an impenetrable wall around or in the spawn area.
Why don't we just vote the entire enemy team off the server? That would be just as effective, too. In fact, let's not even play the game...let's only allow one side to play. That would be fun! Yavol!
Like I said in my first post, I've played on ladders where the opposing team effectively utilized spawn killing. It places more emphasis on keeping your men alive during the game, and avoiding having to spawn in the first place. Medics need to have their needles out...and your team has to move slowly and deliberately through the map. If a skilled team has worked their way into a favorable position, they might deserve to set up what-ever they deem effective. Ideally, they'd be playing against an equally effective enemy. That opposition should be able to work through that problem, provided their communication is good (which brings up another question of why a skilled, well communicating team would eve want to venture onto a public server and practice their Spawn Killing).
The key point here is that this is a public server. There will be skilled players and there will be people who "are not so skilled". It's un-avoidable. Part of what makes a public server like this so fun is being able to take advantage of a few weak links on the other team. Often it's not so much the team-work that wins a game, but the possibility that one skilled player, on either side, will break through and do what it takes to win or defend the objective.
If we're going to discuss tactical spawn killing, why not look into what team is at the worse advantage spawn-wise? The Axis, I'd say because they spawn in a walled environment. They're basically coming into the game
in a handy container. Two exits at the most. Block those doors and it's game over.
The Allies, on the other hand, spawn on a beach...no walls, they can run any direction they want (hell, they can go for a nice swim if they want). Once the forward bunker is secured they have the option NOT to spawn there if they choose. The Axis does not have much choice.
Anyway...I've ranted enough...part of what makes this fun are the different ideas, strategies and skill levels...
...and the occasional scum-bag who logs on to show the world what a dreg he/she/they are.
I say you're right...just like that Chutes and Ladders game with mom. Kick her ass, screw her! It's her fault for not catching me cheating!
If a team is in fact 'kicking another team's ass' then you're right, I wouldn't expect them to stop at the forward bunker (we're talking beach map here).
This is also a public server...the quality of a team varies from second to second. I'm not responsible for my team's lack of skill. I pick a side and start kicking ass if I can.
If some other team is going to concentrate on spawn killing I'd hope I have a few studs on my team that could sneak by and possibly win the game easily...
...try that with a 64 man server.
I expect one or two, or maybe even three spawn campers per round, and I know they'll last about 30 seconds once a half dozen or so people spawn at their feet. If a whole team is assembling a co-coordinated Spawn Killing effort then you got to wonder about their thought process. Sure it could work. Sure there's a possibility that a team, with skilled players, could eventually work their way into setting up an impenetrable wall around or in the spawn area.
Why don't we just vote the entire enemy team off the server? That would be just as effective, too. In fact, let's not even play the game...let's only allow one side to play. That would be fun! Yavol!
Like I said in my first post, I've played on ladders where the opposing team effectively utilized spawn killing. It places more emphasis on keeping your men alive during the game, and avoiding having to spawn in the first place. Medics need to have their needles out...and your team has to move slowly and deliberately through the map. If a skilled team has worked their way into a favorable position, they might deserve to set up what-ever they deem effective. Ideally, they'd be playing against an equally effective enemy. That opposition should be able to work through that problem, provided their communication is good (which brings up another question of why a skilled, well communicating team would eve want to venture onto a public server and practice their Spawn Killing).
The key point here is that this is a public server. There will be skilled players and there will be people who "are not so skilled". It's un-avoidable. Part of what makes a public server like this so fun is being able to take advantage of a few weak links on the other team. Often it's not so much the team-work that wins a game, but the possibility that one skilled player, on either side, will break through and do what it takes to win or defend the objective.
If we're going to discuss tactical spawn killing, why not look into what team is at the worse advantage spawn-wise? The Axis, I'd say because they spawn in a walled environment. They're basically coming into the game
in a handy container. Two exits at the most. Block those doors and it's game over.
The Allies, on the other hand, spawn on a beach...no walls, they can run any direction they want (hell, they can go for a nice swim if they want). Once the forward bunker is secured they have the option NOT to spawn there if they choose. The Axis does not have much choice.
Anyway...I've ranted enough...part of what makes this fun are the different ideas, strategies and skill levels...
...and the occasional scum-bag who logs on to show the world what a dreg he/she/they are.
Lord ZOG
"Well hello Mister Fancypants. Well, I've got news for you pal, you ain't leadin' but two things: Jack and shit... and Jack just left town."
"Well hello Mister Fancypants. Well, I've got news for you pal, you ain't leadin' but two things: Jack and shit... and Jack just left town."
- Sir Fartsalot
by Sir Fartsalot » Mon Oct 21, 2002 9:52 pm
Oops! When I posted and started this thread I somehow didnt envision a tactical and strategic discussion of spawn killing. I also now regret my haste in posting, when I wrote it I was angry that people could be so lame. As I said then, how much skill does it take to constantly throw grenades and airstrikes and flame into the spawn point? None at all. The thing that made me the maddest about this is that it was totally rigged. Two players acting in cooperation, both named conspicuously spawncamper. If you were playing last night (or early this morning) you know how hard it was for the allies to even move before they were killed because of this duo.
Normally, I dont mind the guy who whooshes through and almost as a second thought, throws a grenade into the spawn area and happens to catch a few guys. As I recall in the real D-Day landings, the Allies used both grenades and flamethrowers to clear out the Nazi pill boxes on the beach. But to sit there and pull what they did is unsportsmanlike. I don't know, maybe it's just the principle of the thing. Is spawn killing unavoidable? No. Is it going to happen, even on good servers with good players? Yes. Does it show skill or prowess at the game? No.
Debates on tactics aside, we're not an organized team playing the server. Communication between any random group of players is haphazard at best. I personally play the game on this server because it's fun, some (like these two) just play to get a high score. Great. If you want to spawn kill go somewhere else. Just my opinion.
Normally, I dont mind the guy who whooshes through and almost as a second thought, throws a grenade into the spawn area and happens to catch a few guys. As I recall in the real D-Day landings, the Allies used both grenades and flamethrowers to clear out the Nazi pill boxes on the beach. But to sit there and pull what they did is unsportsmanlike. I don't know, maybe it's just the principle of the thing. Is spawn killing unavoidable? No. Is it going to happen, even on good servers with good players? Yes. Does it show skill or prowess at the game? No.
Debates on tactics aside, we're not an organized team playing the server. Communication between any random group of players is haphazard at best. I personally play the game on this server because it's fun, some (like these two) just play to get a high score. Great. If you want to spawn kill go somewhere else. Just my opinion.
- Sir Fartsalot
by Sir Fartsalot » Mon Oct 21, 2002 11:27 pm
Lord Zog: Please excuse me, I'm sorry I did not make myself clear. Certainly I meant no person here. What I meant was the two players on the server at the time named 'spawncamper'. There were two players because they differentiated themselves by having different color names. And as you do, I play to win, whereas the players I'm referring to just want to pump up their score. If they want high scores let them go play Banimod Gold Rush.
No offense taken...
by Lord ZOG » Mon Oct 21, 2002 11:56 pm
As long as I'm not labeled a Spawn Killer! Ugh...a fate worse than death.
I'm just sensitive. I probably mis-read your post, man.
I'm just sensitive. I probably mis-read your post, man.
Lord ZOG
"Well hello Mister Fancypants. Well, I've got news for you pal, you ain't leadin' but two things: Jack and shit... and Jack just left town."
"Well hello Mister Fancypants. Well, I've got news for you pal, you ain't leadin' but two things: Jack and shit... and Jack just left town."
...
by aleste » Tue Oct 22, 2002 6:34 am
"...and the occasional scum-bag who logs on to show the world what a dreg he/she/they are."
Well I already placed you on my list of people i like next to nothing, so your whiney opinion means nothing to me.
I never placed Chutes and Ladders, so if you had to cheat at that, then your probably one of those that thinks its fun to cheat in a FPS.
Second, I think Motha needs to organize topics like this under individual games, because that sounds like an arguement why spawn camping is "cheating" in RTCW.. Now BF1942
Well I already placed you on my list of people i like next to nothing, so your whiney opinion means nothing to me.
I never placed Chutes and Ladders, so if you had to cheat at that, then your probably one of those that thinks its fun to cheat in a FPS.
Second, I think Motha needs to organize topics like this under individual games, because that sounds like an arguement why spawn camping is "cheating" in RTCW.. Now BF1942
- Edogg
by Edogg » Tue Oct 22, 2002 4:24 pm
Well aleste, now i have to step in and defend my friend zog on this one.
first of all, you guys are talking about two different games. It doesnt even make sense to debate this topic. Second of all, it seems that you are very
defensive when people start discrediting spawn killing....hmm...i wonder why? And lastly, it is obvious that you have never played in a game with zog, because his skill would be so obvious to you, that you would never consider him a cheater.
first of all, you guys are talking about two different games. It doesnt even make sense to debate this topic. Second of all, it seems that you are very
defensive when people start discrediting spawn killing....hmm...i wonder why? And lastly, it is obvious that you have never played in a game with zog, because his skill would be so obvious to you, that you would never consider him a cheater.
- Weasel Meat
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by Weasel Meat » Tue Oct 22, 2002 6:07 pm
If the invulnerability time after you spawn was increased, that may cut down on the spawn killing by letting you kill them before they kill you, or at least let you get out of the forward bunker without being gibbed or having more than 50 health.
...
by aleste » Wed Oct 23, 2002 6:32 am
Spawn camping is the greatest thing in bf 1942.
Its the best way to watch your team asses who refuse to leave the home base while waiting for a tank get repeatedly slaughtered..
In normal public servers, I never attack enemy fighters I see strafing my teams plane campers.. hopefully they get fed up and leave, and open a spot for someone who will play the game.
Its the best way to watch your team asses who refuse to leave the home base while waiting for a tank get repeatedly slaughtered..
In normal public servers, I never attack enemy fighters I see strafing my teams plane campers.. hopefully they get fed up and leave, and open a spot for someone who will play the game.
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