a question for all americans

[Sir Fartsalot]

Hmm. I noticed that its been a few days since anyone has posted to this thread. Maybe they're all still reading Druid's post. (sorry druid ) It seems to me that things got a little out of hand. This wasn't supposed to be a shouting match between europeans and americans. Paperclip asked a few simple questions and as humans tend to do, a few of us got defensive and blew up over the answer.

"Are you supporting your president in the attack on irak (iraq)?"

My answer: no. Call me unpatriotic, fine.

The president and the government like to use the excuse that Iraq continues to develop and fabricate weapons of mass destruction. That includes nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons. That also includes the means of projecting these weapons, ie. the Scud missiles, among others. So why is this such a big deal? Iraq has been developing weapons of mass destruction since long before we started the gulf war in 92. Has he used them? Besides the X-Files-like conspiratists that say that 'gulf was syndrome' was attributed to chemical weapons, there lies no proof that he has. Hussein is smart enough to know that if he used them in a blatant first strike that he would literally have his country smashed like he did in 92. The reason he has them is for defense only. If the US goes in, weapons blazing then, is anyone going to be surprised if he uses them?

And using this excuse, should we not go after North Korea or China as well? Both have overt nuclear weapons programs and both are lead by idealist dictators. Call me stupid but whens the last time we ever thought about war with either one of them? Not since the 50's.

Zog: Police the world? Why is that our right? Because we feel we're the best and biggest on the block? Some think us bullies instead.

Ironman: I agree, we need to watch people within our own country before we mess with those from without. But everycountry has its share of madmen and problems. And no, we didn't drop the bombs just because we had them. As others have said, it actually saved lives.

BugarBomb: American scientists did work the nuclear weapons program. Teller, Oppenheimer, Dyson, Fermi, Feyman, these were Americans who worked on the program. I think you have the Manhattan Project confused with the space program.

No one really wants people to use nuclear weapons, and no sane man ever wants to go to war. The length of the list below is something that scares the wits out of me, it's the list of countries that currently possess nuclear weapons:

United Kingdom
France
China
India
Pakistan
Israel
Iran
Iraq
North Korea
Algeria
Cuba
Libya
Serbia
Sudan
Syria
Argentina
Australia
Belarus
Brazil
Egypt
Japan
Kazakhstan
South Africa
Taiwan
Romania
Ukraine

I'm sorry. I think I've ranted enough here already. Apologies in advance if any of you feel offended by my opinion, it was not my intent.

[SilverSurfer Profile Website]

thx sir fartselot
ive bien away a few days and when i come home i get a few people that want to read me a lesson in my own country's history
perhaps you did a good job searching all those things on the internet
but you dont know how belgium is like you dont know there opinion and you are sertainly not interrested in our opinion

sir fartselot said in his post that america uses the exuse that iraq is producing weapons of mass destruction but isn't america also creating those weapons.

grtz paperclip

[Lord ZOG Profile]

Two words;

Reading comprehension.

I never said the United States had the right to "Police the World".

"There aren't many countries in this world with the power and the capability to "police the world" other than the United States..."

Ever hear of the "UN"? Seems to me a lot of countries just expect the United States to lead the way in "Policing the World".

[SilverSurfer Profile Website]

even if you guys wanted to police the world you could not do it you say you guys have the ability but your country has to little experience

there is not one country that could police the world perhaps un could but thats not 1 country
if there was a country that had no problems in there own country
perhaps that country could rule the world but there will be never a country like that

so i gues the world will be the same for ages to come

grtz paperclip:blow:

[Lord ZOG Profile]

You are correct, Paperclip.

The world will be this way for quite some time.

There are too many whackos, too many un-educated, religious fanatics, too many angry, emotional screw-balls on both sides of the Atlantic (and Pacific for that matter) for this ever to be a perfect world.

Believe me, I'd like to be able to know that I can live my life peacefully. I'd like to know my girlfriend isn't going to be brutalized, raped, killed, attacked or have a plane full of innocent Americans flown into her work-place by some angry, suicidal rag-head.

I'd like to know I can buy gas for my car without some mentally deficient degenerate taking pot shots at me with a sniper rifle.

I'd also like to know that my government isn't sitting back just waiting for another one of the above scenarios to just happen. If by pro-actively pursuing a means to secure that peace my government offends someone else half-way across the world, then so be it.

Let those offended people live in their sewer. I'd prefer to protect my way of living, regardless of what some second-rate indicidual/country/entity claims "offends" them.

[Kristov Profile ICQ]

Do I agree with the Iraq solution? Yes, because I've actually studied the situation and came to the same conclusions myself. It's funny, but, if Iraq actually used weapons of mass destruction, the USA is NOT a target, we're too far from Iraq, their delivery systems won't reach THIS far. Now, the rest of the Middle East, parts of Europe, Africa, Russia and Asia, they are all in the ranges of those delivery systems. Oddly enough, that's NOT something the european press likes to make known, hells, they don't even mention it at all. Same as they don't mention Iraqs support and training of terrorists operating IN europe, as well as the rest of the planet. You see, in the USA, the media is actually NOT controlled by the government, something people in Europe really aren't quite aware of, since most of their media IS government controlled. Subtle difference, I know, but I would hope you might have the intelligence to see it.

Saddam Hussien is a Hitler in the making. He's already tried to 'racially purify' Iraq for purely political reasons. He was under UN sanctions BEFORE the Gulf War, and has been under them since. The poor starving Iraqis are starving because Saddam won't give them the food that IS allowed into the country, nor the medicine or anything else. Of course, Iraq media blames this on the UN, the US and Isreal specifically(Britain as well now), saying WE won't let food and medicine into the country. Fact is, WE ship it there, WE supply it, SADDAM won't give it out to the people who need it.

He's GOT chemical weapons, FACT, as he's already used them on his OWN people as well as Iran. He's trying to get nuclear weapons(doesn't have them yet, nor does Iran, someone's list is WAY off on who does have them), and there's NO reason for him to have nukes. What, he's afraid the US will nuke Iraq and we'll NOT do that if he has one? Yeah, right, you really ARE naive if you think that's his reasoning. He WANTS to nuke something, Iran probably, as he's been at war with them for almost a decade now.

Good gods, do some bloody reading on your OWN, don't just accept the bs your government controlled media feeds you. Iraq has a LONG list of UN violations, Saddam has a long history of warlike actions and overt aggression against neighboring countries, as well as over and covert funding, training and equiping of terrorists. It's all out there, on the internet, if you simply take a little time to research it and read for YOURSELF.

As for the rest of bs I've seen in this thread...grow the fuck up kids. The nukes we dropped on Japan in 45 were dropped to save literally MILLIONS of civilian lives IN Japan. Historical fact kiddies, not something the US made up to justify seeing what a nuke looked like in action. The actual Class A target first chosen was TOTALLY civilian, NO military value at all, and was discarded because it WAS civilian. Go read the Trinity papers, all public record now, very interesting reading, along with the diaries of the people actually involved in all of it, from development to target choice to dropping the things. You'll be amazed at what you read, judging from what I've seen here.

Oh, and Bush won the elections fair and square, Gore just wouldn't admin he'd lost. Popular vote is NOT what selects our president, the Electoral College votes do that, something every American SHOULD know, as it IS taught in school, usually middle school(grades 5-8, varies by location, but generally to kids between the ages of 10 and 14). Gore knew this, knew he'd lost, but wouldn't accept it. Hey, Gore invented the INTERNET for christ's sake, how could we NOT vote him in as president! Gee, and he wonders how he lost...

[SilverSurfer Profile Website]

so you say that your president may use mass destruction weapons against iraq and that by doing that he will save thousans of lives in the future

if you say that, (im not sure i tried to understand everyting you typed kristov but because english isn't an official language in belgium like you possibly read in the post of the history of belgium i cant understand everything you guys type. so correct me if im wrong.)

i think it would be a stupid exuse to attack iraq and aftherwards say that you saved thousands of people
cause you will never now for sure

grtz paperclip

[[A.S.H.]ironman]

U dont even know wich citys u bombed.
the cirtys nakazaki and hiriosima.and its true germans made THE bomb...and the usa gave the NAZI scum who made it .
clear passage to the u.s.a...For there own benefit they were supposed to be hung on a tree like the dogs they are (nazi scum)ur space program was made by one of hitlers most trusted man Werner von braun..And he got away with warcrime only because he hadt the knowhow of making jet propulsion and atomics....
But im not in for a battle between Amerikans ans Europeans it was never my intend on insulting people or other wise

but for u lord zog i make a exxeption buy some books u will see the names nakazaki and hirosima or didnt u go to school..????..
or didnt u get history in ur school..or did they leave it out ur history books because the U.S. is ashamed of having done it????(dont think so but...)


what do ur historybooks say about the atomicbomb dropping i even know the name of the bomb on hirosima..it was Litlleboy and the plain was the inolagay and the ship who braught the bomb was the indianapolis(srry if i spelled it shitty
wich was sunk buy 3 torpedos a 1400 man went into the water and only 450 came out after 24 hours because the mission was topsecret no mayday was sent....

plse can a american tell me the names of the 2 citys just to show zog he's wrong and doesnt no what he's talking about....i didnt make it up but thats what people always say when they dont understand it...or it goes over their heads..im not here for a pissing contest just some answers...

[[A.S.H.]ironman]

Originally posted by PAPERCLIP
so you say that your president may use mass destruction weapons against iraq and that by doing that he will save thousans of lives in the future

if you say that, (im not sure i tried to understand everyting you typed kristov but because english isn't an official language in belgium like you possibly read in the post of the history of belgium i cant understand everything you guys type. so correct me if im wrong.)

i think it would be a stupid exuse to attack iraq and aftherwards say that you saved thousands of people
cause you will never now for sure

grtz paperclip

Are u european paperclip ur absolutly right dude...always after the fact they say it was wrong but....toooo late for the dead

[Weasel Meat Profile Website]

I think Americans know american history pretty well since it is their country.

The two cities that where bombed are as Lord Zog said Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The names of the bombs were Fat man which was dropped over Hiroshima, and Little Boy, Which was dropped 3 days later at Nagasaki. Did you also know that the worlds first atomic bomb tested was named trinity and it was tested in the desert in new mexico near the city of Alamogordo?

The name of the plane that dropped the bomb was The Enola Gay.

The bombs where developed under the top secret Manhattan Project, with the help of J. Robert Oppenheimer and german scientist Albert Einstein and others who defected from nazi germany.

Correct me if I am wrong any where but i dont belive that I am.

I am an American I think I know American history.

If any ony has any more American history to add to this go ahead

[[A.S.H.]ironman]

Originally posted by Kristov
Do I agree with the Iraq solution? Yes, because I've actually studied the situation and came to the same conclusions myself. It's funny, but, if Iraq actually used weapons of mass destruction, the USA is NOT a target, we're too far from Iraq, their delivery systems won't reach THIS far. Now, the rest of the Middle East, parts of Europe, Africa, Russia and Asia, they are all in the ranges of those delivery systems. Oddly enough, that's NOT something the european press likes to make known, hells, they don't even mention it at all. Same as they don't mention Iraqs support and training of terrorists operating IN europe, as well as the rest of the planet. You see, in the USA, the media is actually NOT controlled by the government, something people in Europe really aren't quite aware of, since most of their media IS government controlled. Subtle difference, I know, but I would hope you might have the intelligence to see it.

Saddam Hussien is a Hitler in the making. He's already tried to 'racially purify' Iraq for purely political reasons. He was under UN sanctions BEFORE the Gulf War, and has been under them since. The poor starving Iraqis are starving because Saddam won't give them the food that IS allowed into the country, nor the medicine or anything else. Of course, Iraq media blames this on the UN, the US and Isreal specifically(Britain as well now), saying WE won't let food and medicine into the country. Fact is, WE ship it there, WE supply it, SADDAM won't give it out to the people who need it.

He's GOT chemical weapons, FACT, as he's already used them on his OWN people as well as Iran. He's trying to get nuclear weapons(doesn't have them yet, nor does Iran, someone's list is WAY off on who does have them), and there's NO reason for him to have nukes. What, he's afraid the US will nuke Iraq and we'll NOT do that if he has one? Yeah, right, you really ARE naive if you think that's his reasoning. He WANTS to nuke something, Iran probably, as he's been at war with them for almost a decade now.

Good gods, do some bloody reading on your OWN, don't just accept the bs your government controlled media feeds you. Iraq has a LONG list of UN violations, Saddam has a long history of warlike actions and overt aggression against neighboring countries, as well as over and covert funding, training and equiping of terrorists. It's all out there, on the internet, if you simply take a little time to research it and read for YOURSELF.

As for the rest of bs I've seen in this thread...grow the fuck up kids. The nukes we dropped on Japan in 45 were dropped to save literally MILLIONS of civilian lives IN Japan. Historical fact kiddies, not something the US made up to justify seeing what a nuke looked like in action. The actual Class A target first chosen was TOTALLY civilian, NO military value at all, and was discarded because it WAS civilian. Go read the Trinity papers, all public record now, very interesting reading, along with the diaries of the people actually involved in all of it, from development to target choice to dropping the things. You'll be amazed at what you read, judging from what I've seen here.

Oh, and Bush won the elections fair and square, Gore just wouldn't admin he'd lost. Popular vote is NOT what selects our president, the Electoral College votes do that, something every American SHOULD know, as it IS taught in school, usually middle school(grades 5-8, varies by location, but generally to kids between the ages of 10 and 14). Gore knew this, knew he'd lost, but wouldn't accept it. Hey, Gore invented the INTERNET for christ's sake, how could we NOT vote him in as president! Gee, and he wonders how he lost...

same goes for u dont trust everting ur goverment tells u.....Make up ur own mind
and if u think ut outta reach hehehhe u werent when the plains hit werent u( ur cia and fbi failed to warn u and the knew it was comming)..u thought u were save and far away but "they"brought the war in ur own streets so dont think ur save and far away.. from people like osama or ur own timoty mc vain...the enemy within....And there are lots more of them within the U.S.A.
And the arabics were also long before the 11th in ur country they even took flying lessons and everting.. SO DONT THINK UR OUTTA REACh mate...
the 11th was the beginning of a new kind of terorism, look at russia the 600 people who were hostages....Thats the new way terosism is gonna be fought its a DIRTY war..but the america fought all here wars outside her borders and now "they"enemy's of america wanna take it in to ur streets...And ur own govermant knows it all to well...like the lady of the fbi how reported that there were things going own wich werent correct but here supirors didnt do nothing......So keep thinking ur save ur not.. nobody is of terroism we all have to fear the idiots who wanna blow them selfsup..we ALLL Europeans Americans and the rest of the world must be aware of the grave danger... dont deny it exept it then u can do something about it....

[[A.S.H.]ironman]

Originally posted by PAPERCLIP
even if you guys wanted to police the world you could not do it you say you guys have the ability but your country has to little experience

there is not one country that could police the world perhaps un could but thats not 1 country
if there was a country that had no problems in there own country
perhaps that country could rule the world but there will be never a country like that

so i gues the world will be the same for ages to come

grtz paperclip:blow:

MY country

Hasnt fought a war sinds wwII and we dont know terorism..we have 60 shootings a year( maybe even less) and are economy is much better then the rest of the world we are a nice and friendly people.. who dont think bad just like u paperclip are u belgium..if u are hoi die yankees zijn echt niet slim he!!! hun scholen zijn vergeleken bij die van ons zeker heeel slecht
hij wist niet eens welke 2 steden waren gebombardeerd

[[A.S.H.]ironman]

Originally posted by Sir Fartsalot
Hmm. I noticed that its been a few days since anyone has posted to this thread. Maybe they're all still reading Druid's post. (sorry druid ) It seems to me that things got a little out of hand. This wasn't supposed to be a shouting match between europeans and americans. Paperclip asked a few simple questions and as humans tend to do, a few of us got defensive and blew up over the answer.

"Are you supporting your president in the attack on irak (iraq)?"

My answer: no. Call me unpatriotic, fine.

The president and the government like to use the excuse that Iraq continues to develop and fabricate weapons of mass destruction. That includes nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons. That also includes the means of projecting these weapons, ie. the Scud missiles, among others. So why is this such a big deal? Iraq has been developing weapons of mass destruction since long before we started the gulf war in 92. Has he used them? Besides the X-Files-like conspiratists that say that 'gulf was syndrome' was attributed to chemical weapons, there lies no proof that he has. Hussein is smart enough to know that if he used them in a blatant first strike that he would literally have his country smashed like he did in 92. The reason he has them is for defense only. If the US goes in, weapons blazing then, is anyone going to be surprised if he uses them?

And using this excuse, should we not go after North Korea or China as well? Both have overt nuclear weapons programs and both are lead by idealist dictators. Call me stupid but whens the last time we ever thought about war with either one of them? Not since the 50's.

Zog: Police the world? Why is that our right? Because we feel we're the best and biggest on the block? Some think us bullies instead.

Ironman: I agree, we need to watch people within our own country before we mess with those from without. But everycountry has its share of madmen and problems. And no, we didn't drop the bombs just because we had them. As others have said, it actually saved lives.

BugarBomb: American scientists did work the nuclear weapons program. Teller, Oppenheimer, Dyson, Fermi, Feyman, these were Americans who worked on the program. I think you have the Manhattan Project confused with the space program.

No one really wants people to use nuclear weapons, and no sane man ever wants to go to war. The length of the list below is something that scares the wits out of me, it's the list of countries that currently possess nuclear weapons:

United Kingdom
France
China
India
Pakistan
Israel
Iran
Iraq
North Korea
Algeria
Cuba
Libya
Serbia
Sudan
Syria
Argentina
Australia
Belarus
Brazil
Egypt
Japan
Kazakhstan
South Africa
Taiwan
Romania
Ukraine

I'm sorry. I think I've ranted enough here already. Apologies in advance if any of you feel offended by my opinion, it was not my intent.

u forgot a few.. dude..

netherlands
germanie
south korea
U.S.A.
Spain
And a lot more but they arent owned by them but they are still in storage sinds the coldwar..i was sgt in the airforce wish i couldt tell u more but...its classified info (it still is)...So my own small country got american nukes..we didnt want them but nato gave them..we protested and protested but nothing made a diff.
why the fuck do all these countrys still have those shitty weapons...dont the know its neve going to stop

[[A.S.H.]ironman]

And the u.s.a.

isnt the big kid on the block..there are more then a billion chinees..if they all jump on the same time u gat a title wave that can flush europe an U.S.A. of the map hehehehheheheh
hehehehhehehe:rotflmao:

[[A.S.H.]ironman]

Originally posted by Weasel Meat
I think Americans know american history pretty well since it is their country.

The two cities that where bombed are as Lord Zog said Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The names of the bombs were Fat man which was dropped over Hiroshima, and Little Boy, Which was dropped 3 days later at Nagasaki. Did you also know that the worlds first atomic bomb tested was named trinity and it was tested in the desert in new mexico near the city of Alamogordo?

The name of the plane that dropped the bomb was The Enola Gay.

The bombs where developed under the top secret Manhattan Project, with the help of J. Robert Oppenheimer and german scientist Albert Einstein and others who defected from nazi germany.

Correct me if I am wrong any where but i dont belive that I am.

I am an American I think I know American history.

If any ony has any more American history to add to this go ahead

yeah the boat was called indianaplois..
and was hit by 3 torpedos and suck with 1400 men in the water.. tell it to zog he didnt know it he touhed i made it up or something
but if u read instaed of write u will see that i hadt sayed that a few pargrafs above urs...so readdddddd