Against rules to strafe Omaha Bch from LC?
Fri Dec 19, 2003 4:27 am
Once again, playing by the "published rules," no newbing around, No TKs, playing assault not scout, low ping, and I got kicked or banned for some unknown reason...
I was playing assault, took an "insurance" LC out about twice ship distance from shore and strafed beach to provide cover and keep Jerry hopping and of course insure ship's return if it sank. Had no tks, when team got the beach flag, I was moving in toward beach and whack-- kicked or banned.
So what secret rule did I break this time?
Thanks,
H.I.
I was playing assault, took an "insurance" LC out about twice ship distance from shore and strafed beach to provide cover and keep Jerry hopping and of course insure ship's return if it sank. Had no tks, when team got the beach flag, I was moving in toward beach and whack-- kicked or banned.
So what secret rule did I break this time?
Thanks,
H.I.
Fri Dec 19, 2003 4:36 am
H.I.,
I kicked you for doing nothing. You wern't strafing people on the beach, you wern't even in the gunners posistion. You simply sat out in the boat, and occasionally, drove around in a few circles. I watched you do this for a good 5 minutes, and you still had 0 kills, 0 deaths. Conclusion? You were doing absolutely nothing, and deserved a kick.
Hell, your LC was parked behind the Destroyer, giving you no clear shot on the beach what-so-ever.
Our team didn't even have the beach flag. The least you could have done was used the LC, picked up a few teammates, and driven to the beach and try to storm the flag.
I kicked you, and then banned you when you came back and did the exact same thing. You can join up again, as the ban was for the remainder of that map.
Please, in the future, help storm the beach! Not to mention, you had an LC that could have been used to transport troops to the beach. We had such a shortage of boats, there were times when 20+ people were swimming to shore!
I kicked you for doing nothing. You wern't strafing people on the beach, you wern't even in the gunners posistion. You simply sat out in the boat, and occasionally, drove around in a few circles. I watched you do this for a good 5 minutes, and you still had 0 kills, 0 deaths. Conclusion? You were doing absolutely nothing, and deserved a kick.
Hell, your LC was parked behind the Destroyer, giving you no clear shot on the beach what-so-ever.
Our team didn't even have the beach flag. The least you could have done was used the LC, picked up a few teammates, and driven to the beach and try to storm the flag.
I kicked you, and then banned you when you came back and did the exact same thing. You can join up again, as the ban was for the remainder of that map.
Please, in the future, help storm the beach! Not to mention, you had an LC that could have been used to transport troops to the beach. We had such a shortage of boats, there were times when 20+ people were swimming to shore!
Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:35 am
>>You wern't strafing people on the beach,<<
Yes, I was-- if you were playing while admin-ing also you may not have noticed.
>>you wern't even in the gunners posistion.<<
The exact moment I got kicked I wasn't, because I was driving to shore, since we now had the beach flag. Before that I was strafing, the whole right side.
>>Conclusion? You were doing absolutely nothing, and deserved a kick. <<
Your conclusion was wrong.
>>Hell, your LC was parked behind the Destroyer, giving you no clear shot on the beach what-so-ever.
<<
Not true at all, you must have been looking at someone else, I had a clear view of the whole right half of the beach.
>>Our team didn't even have the beach flag.<<
That's what I was waiting for, I was the insurance LC -- ship sinks, we get it back because they can't get me.
You weren't watching the very long, the second time, because I WAS strafing the beach -- didn't KILL any enemy, but hit one or two (cross hairs lit up-- might have been a vehicle hit, though), making them/it easier for whoever they ran up against to get them.
>>Please, in the future, help storm the beach!<<
Sure, if someone else volunteers to do the dull insurance LC driving.
Someone has to be the insurance LC driver-- this is VERY important on Omaha, as the ship is easy to sink with the Tiger and Panzer on the beach in the right place. The insurance LC is part of the Allied teamwork. There were plenty of people to storm the beach-- they just weren't coordinating their attacks right at first.
>>Not to mention, you had an LC that could have been used to transport troops to the beach. We had such a shortage of boats, there were times when 20+ people were swimming to shore!<<
There was absolutely no shortage when I got it-- myself and one other person were waiting, 1 or 2 maybe swimming to shore, nearly everyone else was on beach, and I dropped the other guy off on the right side and went back to strafing the beach, insuring a ship respawn if need arose.
The insurance LC is a very dull but important part of the teamwork on Omaha Beach map. Storming is important, but thinking and strategy are too.
>>You can join up again, as the ban was for the remainder of that map. <<
For some reason it lasted at least two or three more maps.
Sincerely,
H.I.
Yes, I was-- if you were playing while admin-ing also you may not have noticed.
>>you wern't even in the gunners posistion.<<
The exact moment I got kicked I wasn't, because I was driving to shore, since we now had the beach flag. Before that I was strafing, the whole right side.
>>Conclusion? You were doing absolutely nothing, and deserved a kick. <<
Your conclusion was wrong.
>>Hell, your LC was parked behind the Destroyer, giving you no clear shot on the beach what-so-ever.
<<
Not true at all, you must have been looking at someone else, I had a clear view of the whole right half of the beach.
>>Our team didn't even have the beach flag.<<
That's what I was waiting for, I was the insurance LC -- ship sinks, we get it back because they can't get me.
You weren't watching the very long, the second time, because I WAS strafing the beach -- didn't KILL any enemy, but hit one or two (cross hairs lit up-- might have been a vehicle hit, though), making them/it easier for whoever they ran up against to get them.
>>Please, in the future, help storm the beach!<<
Sure, if someone else volunteers to do the dull insurance LC driving.
Someone has to be the insurance LC driver-- this is VERY important on Omaha, as the ship is easy to sink with the Tiger and Panzer on the beach in the right place. The insurance LC is part of the Allied teamwork. There were plenty of people to storm the beach-- they just weren't coordinating their attacks right at first.
>>Not to mention, you had an LC that could have been used to transport troops to the beach. We had such a shortage of boats, there were times when 20+ people were swimming to shore!<<
There was absolutely no shortage when I got it-- myself and one other person were waiting, 1 or 2 maybe swimming to shore, nearly everyone else was on beach, and I dropped the other guy off on the right side and went back to strafing the beach, insuring a ship respawn if need arose.
The insurance LC is a very dull but important part of the teamwork on Omaha Beach map. Storming is important, but thinking and strategy are too.
>>You can join up again, as the ban was for the remainder of that map. <<
For some reason it lasted at least two or three more maps.
Sincerely,
H.I.
Fri Dec 19, 2003 8:20 am
H.I. , i agree with Ryan. your landing craft machine gunning
tactic is valid but imo, not a good tactic on Omaha.
it might work a little on Midway.
if it had been possible to let your 29 teammates vote on
using the landing craft as a shooting platform or player
transport, i'm sure "player transport" would win.
many of your teammates may have looked at your tactic
the same as if you drove the destroyer off the map.
a kickable offense
tactic is valid but imo, not a good tactic on Omaha.
it might work a little on Midway.
if it had been possible to let your 29 teammates vote on
using the landing craft as a shooting platform or player
transport, i'm sure "player transport" would win.
many of your teammates may have looked at your tactic
the same as if you drove the destroyer off the map.
a kickable offense
Fri Dec 19, 2003 11:27 am
I think there are two sides to this.
1: sure it may be a good tactic, but not on that map.
2: IMO it was a waste of a valuable resource as the slot was being taken by someone else who could have logged in and started assaulting or defending in a more useful manner.
1: sure it may be a good tactic, but not on that map.
2: IMO it was a waste of a valuable resource as the slot was being taken by someone else who could have logged in and started assaulting or defending in a more useful manner.
Fri Dec 19, 2003 11:32 am
The strafing is just secondary, the spawn insurance is the big benefit of taking one LC out a bit. And I ALWAYS wait until there IS NOT a big need for LCs at the moment (obviously, or it would take luck for me to get the driver's seat). Only one other person was waiting (I took him to shore when I realized he was there standing behind me on the LC), most of the rest were on the beach. I ONLY take one out after the first time the ship's klaxon starts going off while we don't have the beach flag,
usually a very very bad sign, especially with only 2-3 engineers, and German armor possibly/probably on the beach. The ship could have sunk toute suite, bye-bye spawn point, hello major defeat. An insurance LC, a well-ammoed B.A.R. wielder or two on the horn of the right beach, or a scout in the "secret place where they never look" are the only protections against abject failure when the ship sinks early.
And now I will be court-martialed for revealing too much to the newer Axis players out there
It's not wise to assume someone is doing nothing just because they are not running down the same path as you, no matter how good your path is. Rushing the beach is important, but so is still having a spawn point from which to rush.
usually a very very bad sign, especially with only 2-3 engineers, and German armor possibly/probably on the beach. The ship could have sunk toute suite, bye-bye spawn point, hello major defeat. An insurance LC, a well-ammoed B.A.R. wielder or two on the horn of the right beach, or a scout in the "secret place where they never look" are the only protections against abject failure when the ship sinks early.
And now I will be court-martialed for revealing too much to the newer Axis players out there
It's not wise to assume someone is doing nothing just because they are not running down the same path as you, no matter how good your path is. Rushing the beach is important, but so is still having a spawn point from which to rush.
Fri Dec 19, 2003 1:24 pm
i respectively disagree with the spawn point idea. i don't think
i have ever seen the Allies win if the ship gets sunk. it takes
so long for the ship to respawn, the allies don't have enough
time to win. if the ship gets sunk, (i'm not saying give up
but imo, you may as well start thinking about the next map)
on # 1 server with plenty of players, allies don't own the beach
flag, there is constant need of player transport to the beach.
with maybe 8 vs 8 that would not apply.
how many players were on the server at the time of the kick?
i have ever seen the Allies win if the ship gets sunk. it takes
so long for the ship to respawn, the allies don't have enough
time to win. if the ship gets sunk, (i'm not saying give up
but imo, you may as well start thinking about the next map)
on # 1 server with plenty of players, allies don't own the beach
flag, there is constant need of player transport to the beach.
with maybe 8 vs 8 that would not apply.
how many players were on the server at the time of the kick?
Fri Dec 19, 2003 3:39 pm
If im not mistaken, the server was nearly full.
You see, the main thing is, we wouldn't need "insurance" if we all rushed and took the flag quick, as the ship wouldn't be used as a spawn point anymore.
I was playing, not admin-ing, and noticed an LC way out in the middle of the water. I hopped in another LC, helped storm the beach with a few others, and died. When I spawned on the ship again, I noticed your LC driving in circles in the middle of nowhere. I then kicked you. When you returned, you did something very similiar.
And yes, there was a shortage of LC boats. This scrennie was taken a few seconds after I kicked you the second time.
You see, the main thing is, we wouldn't need "insurance" if we all rushed and took the flag quick, as the ship wouldn't be used as a spawn point anymore.
I was playing, not admin-ing, and noticed an LC way out in the middle of the water. I hopped in another LC, helped storm the beach with a few others, and died. When I spawned on the ship again, I noticed your LC driving in circles in the middle of nowhere. I then kicked you. When you returned, you did something very similiar.
And yes, there was a shortage of LC boats. This scrennie was taken a few seconds after I kicked you the second time.
Fri Dec 19, 2003 3:41 pm
Another...
Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:20 pm
That map screen was ABSOLUTELY NOTanywhere NEAR what it was like when I was kicked the 2nd time-- not even close, unless there is a 5-10 minute kick lag. As you can tell, that picture is folks foolishly or accidentally jumping in the water to swim to shore from the right side (which is impatient useless suicide unless you swim far right),as the ship pulls off to the right probably to repair.When I was strafing, those minutes before I was kicked, almost everyone was on the left side and in the center near the flag, and the ship was slightly moving back and forth in the center-- I know this PRECISELY because I had been watching the map as I strafed the right side of the beach, to avoid tking. I was kicked as I was driving the boat in seconds after the flag turned.
Plus, there absolutely was not a boat shortage when I took the insurance LC out, either time-- if there were there would have been people in the boat with me, right? As it was it was one guy, the second time, and I took him to shore.
In fact, this debate shows a a major problem with the way many people are thinking about this map-- just storming the beach blindly without thinking or waiting for one or two other boats to fill up and go simultaneously to opposite sides. Four or six guys in one LC hitting the beach alone = three or five dead instantly from the grenades tossed by all the axis players leisurely waiting right where it comes in.
As to using up a spot on the team, the server was not full, had around 27 or so per side. With me insuring and 4 or so people staying on ship, thats 3 or 4 LC loads, if the drivers going to shore wait for folks to get in.
Insuring with an LC does not in any way cause boat shortages, and in truth CANNOT, at least not for more than a minute. Half-cocked drivers rushing to shore over and over with half-empty LCs do. I saw plenty of LCs going to shore with 2 or 3 aboard.
>>there is constant need of player transport to the beach. <<Bladerunner wrote
And yet often (and correctly) the boat driver will wait for more people to spawn and get in, even though if he left instantly another lc would spawn sooner. Watch the next time the map comes up-- if 50% of the drivers wait for the LC to fill up, instead of rushing in with 2,3 or 4 people, there is no shortage (generally because people last longer once ashore
), unless the destroyer has pulled farther from the beach. I am not sure if there is a spawn limit on # of LCs at one time on the map, but it is at least 10 or more if there is.
We'll just have to agree to disagree if you still don;t see it, and I won't do it when you admin.As you can see from the debate, it was not a kick for me breaking rules, or hampering other players (I absolutely did not contribute to any LC shortage), it was a kick for me having a different tactical outlook, which should be done with care lest the servers and players become Borg-like.
Plus, there absolutely was not a boat shortage when I took the insurance LC out, either time-- if there were there would have been people in the boat with me, right? As it was it was one guy, the second time, and I took him to shore.
In fact, this debate shows a a major problem with the way many people are thinking about this map-- just storming the beach blindly without thinking or waiting for one or two other boats to fill up and go simultaneously to opposite sides. Four or six guys in one LC hitting the beach alone = three or five dead instantly from the grenades tossed by all the axis players leisurely waiting right where it comes in.
As to using up a spot on the team, the server was not full, had around 27 or so per side. With me insuring and 4 or so people staying on ship, thats 3 or 4 LC loads, if the drivers going to shore wait for folks to get in.
Insuring with an LC does not in any way cause boat shortages, and in truth CANNOT, at least not for more than a minute. Half-cocked drivers rushing to shore over and over with half-empty LCs do. I saw plenty of LCs going to shore with 2 or 3 aboard.
>>there is constant need of player transport to the beach. <<Bladerunner wrote
And yet often (and correctly) the boat driver will wait for more people to spawn and get in, even though if he left instantly another lc would spawn sooner. Watch the next time the map comes up-- if 50% of the drivers wait for the LC to fill up, instead of rushing in with 2,3 or 4 people, there is no shortage (generally because people last longer once ashore
), unless the destroyer has pulled farther from the beach. I am not sure if there is a spawn limit on # of LCs at one time on the map, but it is at least 10 or more if there is.
We'll just have to agree to disagree if you still don;t see it, and I won't do it when you admin.As you can see from the debate, it was not a kick for me breaking rules, or hampering other players (I absolutely did not contribute to any LC shortage), it was a kick for me having a different tactical outlook, which should be done with care lest the servers and players become Borg-like.
Fri Dec 19, 2003 6:54 pm
HI, you have a valid tactic on a server that is filled with idiots (EA and NVidia), perhaps that is where your used to playing. This server has enough skilled people on it and people that are using TeamSpeak to not need to employ such a tactic. I cant remember the last time that I was playing and the destroyer was sunk. Bottom line is, you dont need to do that on this server so please dont. Have a good day and merry Xmas.
Fri Dec 19, 2003 8:46 pm
Indeed.