Beach adopts 2-panzer limit
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by Nofx » Wed Oct 08, 2003 5:34 pm
Here are some changes I have noticed:
I dont go engineer as allies anymore, unless there is a uber sniper on my own team. With the panzer arc, I cant rely on a good panzer shot into the forward bunker. Also if I have the panzer, it would be too costly to give it up to someone who wont kill effectively with it.
KR should go up for good players too, as there are far less panzer shells to worry about...but for panzer users, although the KR should go up, the number of kills should increase at a slower rate...
Less blocking in forward bunker by far
Quite easy to go Axis leut and nade spam the basement to kingdom come
Its easier than in the past to push out and attack trenches/upper base as axis, if the axis team is better. However, if the two panzers are in the hands of two wr campers, then its far more difficult to hold upper.
Due to the arc, its even harder to panzer on allies than on axis now. I feel that the limited of the panzers had a long way coming...but the arc sounds more like a rushed decision, simply for a change. According to others t didn't work in the past, it doesnt sounds like it was carefully thought out, I don't remember for numerous polls and complaints asking for the arc...
I dont go engineer as allies anymore, unless there is a uber sniper on my own team. With the panzer arc, I cant rely on a good panzer shot into the forward bunker. Also if I have the panzer, it would be too costly to give it up to someone who wont kill effectively with it.
KR should go up for good players too, as there are far less panzer shells to worry about...but for panzer users, although the KR should go up, the number of kills should increase at a slower rate...
Less blocking in forward bunker by far
Quite easy to go Axis leut and nade spam the basement to kingdom come
Its easier than in the past to push out and attack trenches/upper base as axis, if the axis team is better. However, if the two panzers are in the hands of two wr campers, then its far more difficult to hold upper.
Due to the arc, its even harder to panzer on allies than on axis now. I feel that the limited of the panzers had a long way coming...but the arc sounds more like a rushed decision, simply for a change. According to others t didn't work in the past, it doesnt sounds like it was carefully thought out, I don't remember for numerous polls and complaints asking for the arc...
by Lord ZOG » Wed Oct 08, 2003 5:40 pm
You wusses don't know real gaming. When I started playing here he had no limtis on anything, air-strikes, panzers, flamers and not even a frikin spawn invulnerability and we still managed to win the odd round.
It's about team work, not a bunch of snivveling whiners complaining to the higher ups to change settings in a game they never play!
You stinking Beach Queens!!
I admired the guys who used to go for the mucho panzer kills. They knew where to be and when to shoot. Pshcyo, Cowboy...the list goes on and on.
What next? No guns? Let's just play cards.
Suck it up ladies, not everything in life is easy.
It's about team work, not a bunch of snivveling whiners complaining to the higher ups to change settings in a game they never play!
You stinking Beach Queens!!
I admired the guys who used to go for the mucho panzer kills. They knew where to be and when to shoot. Pshcyo, Cowboy...the list goes on and on.
What next? No guns? Let's just play cards.
Suck it up ladies, not everything in life is easy.
Lord ZOG
"Well hello Mister Fancypants. Well, I've got news for you pal, you ain't leadin' but two things: Jack and shit... and Jack just left town."
"Well hello Mister Fancypants. Well, I've got news for you pal, you ain't leadin' but two things: Jack and shit... and Jack just left town."
- S.S.{Elite}RADR
by S.S.{Elite}RADR » Wed Oct 08, 2003 6:07 pm
I AGREE WHY DOES THE GAME HAVE TO BE SO POLITICALLY CORRECT. WHY DONT WE HAVE THE GUNS SHOOT ROSE PETALS, THE BULLETS KILL ME WHEN I GET SHOT. AND THE GRENADES SHOULD HAVE PERFUME , SINCE THE EXPLOSION BRINGS MY LIFE POINTS DOWN. OH 1 MORE CAN WE BAN THE AXIS THEY ALWAYS SEEM TO BLOCK AND SHOOT ME WHEN I RUN FOR THE DOCS. BUCK UP YOU FRUIT CARRYING SAPS.
- Killer Mike
- RTCW Admin
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- Posts: 930
- Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2002 8:42 pm
by Killer Mike » Wed Oct 08, 2003 6:32 pm
Originally posted by S.S.{Elite}RADR
I AGREE WHY DOES THE GAME HAVE TO BE SO POLITICALLY CORRECT. WHY DONT WE HAVE THE GUNS SHOOT ROSE PETALS, THE BULLETS KILL ME WHEN I GET SHOT. AND THE GRENADES SHOULD HAVE PERFUME , SINCE THE EXPLOSION BRINGS MY LIFE POINTS DOWN. OH 1 MORE CAN WE BAN THE AXIS THEY ALWAYS SEEM TO BLOCK AND SHOOT ME WHEN I RUN FOR THE DOCS. BUCK UP YOU FRUIT CARRYING SAPS.
Agg, my eyes!!! Why can't people figure out they have the cap locks on !!!
- S.S.{Elite}RADR
by S.S.{Elite}RADR » Wed Oct 08, 2003 6:40 pm
and i had cap locks on to emphasize that i hate all the damn polls and whining threads every other day about weapon limits. it just sucks. if you want it limited do it straight across the board like you can in et. just set all heavy weapons at 30- 40 percent . all heavy weapons. why the panzer but not flamers, or venoms?why no gravity changes for all guns and flamers? why are the medics allowed to charge up so quick? that is unfair. when u do have a panzer why does the bar charge so quick? why why why why??????
- Keekanoo
by Keekanoo » Wed Oct 08, 2003 7:19 pm
Nofx....regarding the Panzer arc...
The arc was my request. Here's my rationale: Beyond the fact that it is more realistic (I've gone into the ballistic attributes of faust rounds vs small-arms munitions elsewhere so really don't want to go over it here; the gist of it is is that the faust round, like the English Piat (though the Piat, fireing a spring-thrown projectile, had a brutal arc), less like the American bazooka (they fired a projectile via an explosive charge from a tube--more like a gun than the faust which was/is more like a missile in that it uses propellant during it's flight) had a definate range of fire. No more than 60 yards with great accuracy. After that it's trajectory would rapidly fall off, so that a target of more than 200 yards was virtually unhitable. A rifle bullet from a mauser will happily travel over a mile in a straight line. Someone mentioned gravity should be turned on for nades. Uhm.....maybe it's just me, but when I throw a nade, mine 'lob' toward a target, they don't zing out and fly straight and true till something interupts their path).
Dam....I really didn't want to type all that again. ANYway, the fact that the arc is more realistic ISN'T my rationale. What I figured is is that noobs will find the concept of 'arching' beyond their limited comprehensive skills and quickly go for a weapon easier to manage. Thus, fausts, like stens, will fall into the hands of those who wish a challange--typically people who are experts at the game and are looking for something new. In point of fact, the arching of the faust round can be used, as Cow pointed out, to an advantage as it can be used to fire over walls to hit targets not in a line-of-sight.
Zog....it was I who brought the matter to Boc regarding the faust changes. I'd hardly consider myself to be someone who doesn't play. Indeed, many veteran gamers have approached me privately, or in the game, to pass on that they find the faust change has given the Beach a better edge. I fully expected noob faust-jocks, or those who use them as devestating weapons of mass-destruction, to moan and bitch about the change.
Personally, I think the reduction of the air-strike spam. so long ago instituted, was a magnificent change--even though I dearly loved seeing my name scroll across the screen preceeded by 20 'You were killed by: Keekanoo' entries.
Nothing comes off the assembly line perfect. It is through trial-and-error in the field (hello Siren) that something is perfected.
Like it or not, we, all of us veterans at the Beach, are far more knowledgable about the game dynamics than the creators ever were. We are the vanguard of the future, and it is through our sophistication and demand for higher performance and game attributes that have driven things so strongly from the days of 'pong'. None more than us has the wisdom, earned from long hard-fought battles, to know what needs tweaking and what should be left alone.
I think it's awesome that we have this forum, that we can exhange ideas here; and I for one want everyone, every noob, every veteran who reads and contributes here, to pass on what they feel free from social incrimination. It is thus that we give to the future what we have learned from the past.
I gotta go....Arney wants another speech written....
Ah'll be bahch.
Keek
The arc was my request. Here's my rationale: Beyond the fact that it is more realistic (I've gone into the ballistic attributes of faust rounds vs small-arms munitions elsewhere so really don't want to go over it here; the gist of it is is that the faust round, like the English Piat (though the Piat, fireing a spring-thrown projectile, had a brutal arc), less like the American bazooka (they fired a projectile via an explosive charge from a tube--more like a gun than the faust which was/is more like a missile in that it uses propellant during it's flight) had a definate range of fire. No more than 60 yards with great accuracy. After that it's trajectory would rapidly fall off, so that a target of more than 200 yards was virtually unhitable. A rifle bullet from a mauser will happily travel over a mile in a straight line. Someone mentioned gravity should be turned on for nades. Uhm.....maybe it's just me, but when I throw a nade, mine 'lob' toward a target, they don't zing out and fly straight and true till something interupts their path).
Dam....I really didn't want to type all that again. ANYway, the fact that the arc is more realistic ISN'T my rationale. What I figured is is that noobs will find the concept of 'arching' beyond their limited comprehensive skills and quickly go for a weapon easier to manage. Thus, fausts, like stens, will fall into the hands of those who wish a challange--typically people who are experts at the game and are looking for something new. In point of fact, the arching of the faust round can be used, as Cow pointed out, to an advantage as it can be used to fire over walls to hit targets not in a line-of-sight.
Zog....it was I who brought the matter to Boc regarding the faust changes. I'd hardly consider myself to be someone who doesn't play. Indeed, many veteran gamers have approached me privately, or in the game, to pass on that they find the faust change has given the Beach a better edge. I fully expected noob faust-jocks, or those who use them as devestating weapons of mass-destruction, to moan and bitch about the change.
Personally, I think the reduction of the air-strike spam. so long ago instituted, was a magnificent change--even though I dearly loved seeing my name scroll across the screen preceeded by 20 'You were killed by: Keekanoo' entries.
Nothing comes off the assembly line perfect. It is through trial-and-error in the field (hello Siren) that something is perfected.
Like it or not, we, all of us veterans at the Beach, are far more knowledgable about the game dynamics than the creators ever were. We are the vanguard of the future, and it is through our sophistication and demand for higher performance and game attributes that have driven things so strongly from the days of 'pong'. None more than us has the wisdom, earned from long hard-fought battles, to know what needs tweaking and what should be left alone.
I think it's awesome that we have this forum, that we can exhange ideas here; and I for one want everyone, every noob, every veteran who reads and contributes here, to pass on what they feel free from social incrimination. It is thus that we give to the future what we have learned from the past.
I gotta go....Arney wants another speech written....
Ah'll be bahch.
Keek
- Keekanoo
by Keekanoo » Wed Oct 08, 2003 7:26 pm
Originally posted by S.S.{Elite}RADR
just set all heavy weapons at 30- 40 percent . all heavy weapons. why the panzer but not flamers, or venoms?why no gravity changes for all guns and flamers? why are the medics allowed to charge up so quick? that is unfair. when u do have a panzer why does the bar charge so quick? why why why why??????
Don't hold back Radram
- Killer Mike
- RTCW Admin
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- Posts: 930
- Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2002 8:42 pm
by Killer Mike » Wed Oct 08, 2003 7:42 pm
Originally posted by S.S.{Elite}RADR
and i had cap locks on to emphasize that i hate all the damn polls and whining threads every other day about weapon limits. it just sucks. if you want it limited do it straight across the board like you can in et. just set all heavy weapons at 30- 40 percent . all heavy weapons. why the panzer but not flamers, or venoms?why no gravity changes for all guns and flamers? why are the medics allowed to charge up so quick? that is unfair. when u do have a panzer why does the bar charge so quick? why why why why??????
Why not do it straight across the board like et? Probably b/c it's not et....who's complaining about charge times.....why are you so angry whenever the polls are about rtcw and people who still play there often. You play et. Let the people who play beach on a basis give their thoughts. Who cares if it's already been done.
by Rand0m » Wed Oct 08, 2003 8:14 pm
seriously this is so stupid everyone keeps complaining about being panzered, campers in war room, venoms, flamers on back stairway. panzer arc= more realism this is a VIDEO GAME, not REAL life. its not suppossed to be realistic. i want to panzer, but its hard enough with a stupid arc on the thing and two people already having it who probably dont know how to control it with the arc on.
like zog said there were no limits before. i say we make a poll to go NO HOLDS BARRED on beach 24/7. no lt. 0 charge bar at spawn, have it full and fill up just as quick as medics bar for air strike spamming. no flamer limits, no panzer arcs, no panzer limits to only two. yeah maybe the jokes about playing with paintball guns on the beach is a bit farfetched but pretty soon thats what all the whiners will be wanting. like 6 months maybe 5 months i complained quite often but playing on the beach for that long you get used to it, and you start to enjoy it. but then people who "play to win" or "play for kill ratio" start complaining about heavy weapons. i am sure in BF no one complains about planes dropping bombs and crap. its part of the game. and people will start saying nade spamming should be banned. i love nade spamming, one of the funnest parts of the game along with panzering the foward bunker and getting 9 kills in one shot. when we will be able to get a server where there are no complainers about weapons. yea yea yea im complaining about this new arc and weapons limit thing because its better making the game more diffucult, i just started playing beach again after a 3-4 week break and i transmitted the docs 2 games in a row, way way too easy if there are only two panzers and with arc on. i think if their were no limits to weapons and arc off a lot more of the old players might come back, and maybe itd be so so so bad the complainers would leave and the true regulars would stay. hahahaha just my opinion. no holds barred would be fun.
like zog said there were no limits before. i say we make a poll to go NO HOLDS BARRED on beach 24/7. no lt. 0 charge bar at spawn, have it full and fill up just as quick as medics bar for air strike spamming. no flamer limits, no panzer arcs, no panzer limits to only two. yeah maybe the jokes about playing with paintball guns on the beach is a bit farfetched but pretty soon thats what all the whiners will be wanting. like 6 months maybe 5 months i complained quite often but playing on the beach for that long you get used to it, and you start to enjoy it. but then people who "play to win" or "play for kill ratio" start complaining about heavy weapons. i am sure in BF no one complains about planes dropping bombs and crap. its part of the game. and people will start saying nade spamming should be banned. i love nade spamming, one of the funnest parts of the game along with panzering the foward bunker and getting 9 kills in one shot. when we will be able to get a server where there are no complainers about weapons. yea yea yea im complaining about this new arc and weapons limit thing because its better making the game more diffucult, i just started playing beach again after a 3-4 week break and i transmitted the docs 2 games in a row, way way too easy if there are only two panzers and with arc on. i think if their were no limits to weapons and arc off a lot more of the old players might come back, and maybe itd be so so so bad the complainers would leave and the true regulars would stay. hahahaha just my opinion. no holds barred would be fun.
by Lord ZOG » Wed Oct 08, 2003 8:16 pm
I think every game is subject to subtle changes, and this is just another in a long line of changes, some good, some not so good. No server is perfect, but "back in the day" the ECGN/OC48 regulars used to pride ourselves on being able to play on th biggest, baddest, 20-minute brawl-for-it-all server on the planet.
We played, got our asses mucnhed, but we were successful many times.
One could argue, and not without merit, that the level of skill on the server has increased. They could argue, again not without merit, that people have learned Beach's nuances. They could argue that the server has matured along with its players and that certain changes had to be made.
I'll be the first to admit that changing the air strikes was fine, because there was NO limit of LTs, and it got to the point where 80% of the Axis would be LTs, aiming their artillery for the lower stairs in the trenches. That was no fun.
BUT, I think 2 panzers per team is a joke. I played this morning with less than 12 players on each team and 2-panzers is fine for that, but 64-players? I'm going to introduce my crippled grand-ma to the server tonight. I'm sure she'll be able to play.
PC is in. Those who can't handle the pressure look for cheats-codes. If you can't compete, cheat or whine until they make changes.
What's next? No venoms? How about those nasty knives? I like Rad's idea of no Axis. Let's just line up in the trenches and one-by-one, run for the docs. We'll have two minute games from now until eternity.
We played, got our asses mucnhed, but we were successful many times.
One could argue, and not without merit, that the level of skill on the server has increased. They could argue, again not without merit, that people have learned Beach's nuances. They could argue that the server has matured along with its players and that certain changes had to be made.
I'll be the first to admit that changing the air strikes was fine, because there was NO limit of LTs, and it got to the point where 80% of the Axis would be LTs, aiming their artillery for the lower stairs in the trenches. That was no fun.
BUT, I think 2 panzers per team is a joke. I played this morning with less than 12 players on each team and 2-panzers is fine for that, but 64-players? I'm going to introduce my crippled grand-ma to the server tonight. I'm sure she'll be able to play.
PC is in. Those who can't handle the pressure look for cheats-codes. If you can't compete, cheat or whine until they make changes.
What's next? No venoms? How about those nasty knives? I like Rad's idea of no Axis. Let's just line up in the trenches and one-by-one, run for the docs. We'll have two minute games from now until eternity.
Lord ZOG
"Well hello Mister Fancypants. Well, I've got news for you pal, you ain't leadin' but two things: Jack and shit... and Jack just left town."
"Well hello Mister Fancypants. Well, I've got news for you pal, you ain't leadin' but two things: Jack and shit... and Jack just left town."
by (SEETHER) » Wed Oct 08, 2003 8:24 pm
Man, I remember those old days of unlimited panzers and airstrikes and the whole big mess. It was almost impossible for the allies to win back then. You would have to pass through a mine field of airstrikes, only to get shot by a camping panzer.
Now it is becoming more of an even match between axis and allies. I have seen some incredible gun and knife battles take place recently.
Maybe experimenting with the number of max lives is next on the agenda. Skulling is a great aspect of teamplay and also more realistic, in my opinion.
S.S.SEETHER
Now it is becoming more of an even match between axis and allies. I have seen some incredible gun and knife battles take place recently.
Maybe experimenting with the number of max lives is next on the agenda. Skulling is a great aspect of teamplay and also more realistic, in my opinion.
S.S.SEETHER
{Seether}
by Rand0m » Wed Oct 08, 2003 8:25 pm
read my post above zogs sort of the same idea, but NO axis thats the best idea yet yay! lets all go run threw fields of flowers and birds and sing songs, NOT!!!! lets friggen run threw the trenches being nade spammed, lt air strike spammed, and best of all panzer spammed...NO HOLDS BARRED baby. its a game its suppossed to be fun not the most serious thing on the earth its getting a bit lame making the game so serious.
by Nofx » Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:30 pm
Originally posted by Keekanoo
Nofx....regarding the Panzer arc...
ANYway, the fact that the arc is more realistic ISN'T my rationale. What I figured is is that noobs will find the concept of 'arching' beyond their limited comprehensive skills and quickly go for a weapon easier to manage. Thus, fausts, like stens, will fall into the hands of those who wish a challange--typically people who are experts at the game and are looking for something new. In point of fact, the arching of the faust round can be used, as Cow pointed out, to an advantage as it can be used to fire over walls to hit targets not in a line-of-sight.Keek
Ok I didn't think about the point of view of a noob who choses a new weapon because of the panzer arc. Good point, I hope it works (although I have seen dozens and dozens of panzer shots from my own team almost hit ME when I am planting as an engineer =P) Personally, I feel that its not really a deterrent...its like half these noobs dont even know if their shot hit and if they killed anyone. Thats just my opinion....I'm willing to wait and see if the panzer arc does in fact make noobs change weapons
Btw...I played consistenly on a server with panzer arc for several months...from my experience, I find that there is almost no change in gameplan as an axis panzer (with the exception of maybe a few tricky shots..offset by several shots that are made much easier with the arc)...but as an allies panzer, many more shots are altered and require practice. Maybe the slightly increased difficulty of panzering on allies is more than offset by the 2 panzer limit...
Anyways, what other changes do you guys all notice? Maybe if we post em all here, we can adjust to the new settings faster.
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