Tue Dec 16, 2003 10:37 pm
It worked very well tonight. I lagged just a little bit when things got really going, but mostly it was very smooth and very good. I thought that I would have seen a bit more of an increase in performance, but it was still better. Is it worth the price? I am not sure yet.
Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:27 am
Tommy, some times you can mix up vid lag for server lag.
run fraps or the ingame "fps 1" with the 9800, watch your
frames per second to get an average. then switch to your
8500 and do the same thing. i suspect you will see twice
the frame rates.
run fraps or the ingame "fps 1" with the 9800, watch your
frames per second to get an average. then switch to your
8500 and do the same thing. i suspect you will see twice
the frame rates.
Wed Dec 17, 2003 8:56 am
Thanks Blade. Like I said, I hesitated to spend $449 on it, but it seems to be worth it...
I will do what you said and report back. At least now lag won't be an excuse (I hope) for Sunday's BOTR!
I will do what you said and report back. At least now lag won't be an excuse (I hope) for Sunday's BOTR!
Wed Dec 17, 2003 9:17 am
Yeah, I lag from time to time tommy, and it's usually a server-side issue, or something between myself and ECGN (packet loss, etc). That, or some other issue (background apps, etc). Also, if you really want to see this diff. in the cards, try checking the FPS diff. with AA/AF CRANKED up to max....the 8500 will choke 
Matt, top of the line ATI card right now is the 9800XT, 256mb. I don't know (or care ) what the top of the line Nvidia card is......
Matt, top of the line ATI card right now is the 9800XT, 256mb. I don't know (or care
) what the top of the line Nvidia card is......
Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:25 am
Thanks Bullhead...you seem to know your stuff.
Would you recommend the All-in-Wonder 9800 Pro 128 vs. the 9800 Pro 128? What are the differences? Is it worth the $100 difference? That is my only consideration now I think.
Would you recommend the All-in-Wonder 9800 Pro 128 vs. the 9800 Pro 128? What are the differences? Is it worth the $100 difference? That is my only consideration now I think.
Wed Dec 17, 2003 11:10 am
The only reason to get the AIW version is if you need the a/v inputs, like for recording video, importing stuff, watching tv on pc, etc. For gaming, there's no difference (or maybe a slight performance loss on the AIW due to it using slower mem sometimes). Unless you do alot of a/v work, you should spend the $100 or something else (I think Buliwyf keeps asking you to get a new mic/sound card, eh? )
)
Wed Dec 17, 2003 11:28 am
Just picked up 9800pro 128 meg card for $299.99. This was with a hundred dollar rebate from CompUSA. $260.00 is a steal from newegg.com and I would jump on it now. I just read and article that said the 256 meg cards are just a waste of dough. System RAM and 128 meg card is what you need. 256 is just a dollar thing and not a "real" product gain. If you waited this long I would get a new system that has a 9800 preinstalled and do it in one shot. Don't know your finances but the +1500 is getting dated. You can get decent systems for under a grand now with a decent vid card already installed. The 9800pro runs much smoother than the 9600pro did. The 9600 would freeze up and I sold it on ebay. The 9800 has worked flawlessly this week is the lenght of time I had it. If you don't have allot of dough for a new system than I would sit tight until first quarter of 2004. PCI express is the new technology and it should slash prices on AGP cards. And for you guys that love AGP, look in this months MaximumPC. AGP will be on the way out completely. The new MOBO's including Intel's T socket will be PCI express only from the reading. Won't even have a AGP slot available. Intel is also bringing out not one but two new processors in 2004. Prescott and the the Tejas which will run like a 64bit athlon. So I would expect a huge reduction in P4 systems.
So bag, forget what I said earlier about a new system. If you waited this long wait another three months and pick up a P4 system and a 9800pro for allot less than what you would pay now. And you AMD freaks---They have another processor coming out also. Forgot the name but its like the 64bit but they backed off the gig of cache that the fx chips have now. Gone to 512 to make the chip more affordable. But please, browse the PC Max article and read up on what is coming out. They actually saud the 9800XT would be out on its ear once this PCI express gets available. Something about this technolgy will let you run any game from a 30.00 card to a 500.00 card. Just the 500.00 card would have better graphics and frame rates. But the key is that any game will be able to be played on a $30.00 pci express card.
So bag, forget what I said earlier about a new system. If you waited this long wait another three months and pick up a P4 system and a 9800pro for allot less than what you would pay now. And you AMD freaks---They have another processor coming out also. Forgot the name but its like the 64bit but they backed off the gig of cache that the fx chips have now. Gone to 512 to make the chip more affordable. But please, browse the PC Max article and read up on what is coming out. They actually saud the 9800XT would be out on its ear once this PCI express gets available. Something about this technolgy will let you run any game from a 30.00 card to a 500.00 card. Just the 500.00 card would have better graphics and frame rates. But the key is that any game will be able to be played on a $30.00 pci express card.
Wed Dec 17, 2003 11:50 am
Originally posted by Bullhead
The only reason to get the AIW version is if you need the a/v inputs, like for recording video, importing stuff, watching tv on pc, etc. For gaming, there's no difference (or maybe a slight performance loss on the AIW due to it using slower mem sometimes). Unless you do alot of a/v work, you should spend the $100 or something else (I think Buliwyf keeps asking you to get a new mic/sound card, eh?
Thanks for the advice. i will stick with the 9800 Pro then. I will also hook up the boom mic that I have...I just prefer my speakers from the headset...but I will have this corrected after Christmas...rest assured!
Thanks again for the advice!
Wed Dec 17, 2003 12:23 pm
Tommy Boy I feel bad for saying this, but you *may* have to do a reformat to see better performance.
When I upgraded to a 9700np, BF didnt run much better than it did with my Geforce4 ti4200. Frame rates still dipped quite a bit, and the game was rather choppy. I was pretty mad actually, because at that time the 9700's were a lot of money.
I decided to reinstall, and it made the biggest difference in the world. I'm not sure if it was becuase the reformat got rid of old drivers not being used (you can use a program to remove old drivers from your system that hamper performance of your card, what's it called bullhead? driver remove 2 or soemthign?) or just because it got rid of all the useless trash on my HD, but the game ran about 500% better after the reformat. I was surprised and really happy because I thought I wasted my money on the 9700.
But yeah like bullhead said, you turn up AA/AF on the 9800, and that's where it shines. Only that card can run games at high levels of AA/AF and experience minimum slowdowns. No other card can do that, so if you're not experiencing that much of a performance increase, reformatting may solve your problem.
When I upgraded to a 9700np, BF didnt run much better than it did with my Geforce4 ti4200. Frame rates still dipped quite a bit, and the game was rather choppy. I was pretty mad actually, because at that time the 9700's were a lot of money.
I decided to reinstall, and it made the biggest difference in the world. I'm not sure if it was becuase the reformat got rid of old drivers not being used (you can use a program to remove old drivers from your system that hamper performance of your card, what's it called bullhead? driver remove 2 or soemthign?) or just because it got rid of all the useless trash on my HD, but the game ran about 500% better after the reformat. I was surprised and really happy because I thought I wasted my money on the 9700.
But yeah like bullhead said, you turn up AA/AF on the 9800, and that's where it shines. Only that card can run games at high levels of AA/AF and experience minimum slowdowns. No other card can do that, so if you're not experiencing that much of a performance increase, reformatting may solve your problem.
Wed Dec 17, 2003 12:41 pm
If you get a video card, beware of unboxed OEM (bulk) ones. Check the memory to be sure they are true PRO (9700 or 9800) chips. It's likely you'll get the slower memory and will not be able to oc at all. Many places will only allow exchanges, no refunds, and you may even be getting someone else's return. Get retail boxed. I learned the hard way.
For you guys getting lag while playing online, try playing single player to see if you can duplicate it. If you have eliminated server lag as the problem, then it's likely your system needs optimizing. XP has so much junk running in the background, plus many have apps they installed that suck up system resources (and don't even realize it). Turn off all non-essential application and windowz processes. If anyone is interested, I'd be happy to post them. However, to make life simple, go here and apply this to your registry for a start:
http://www.blackviper.com/WinXP/registry.htm
Look for "SAFE" Windows XP Services Configuration
A fairly simple thing to do as well is with game running, open task manager (2000 and xp), and under Processes, right click on bf1942.exe and choose High Priority.
A few more:
1) Set QoS (quality of service) so that it reserves no bandwidth. By default, XP sets 20% aside which for most is just wasted and can cause lag if you don't have a lot of bandwidth. It can just be disabled also.
2) If running a AMD Barton or Intel that has 512 L2 cache, XP doesn't do a good job utilizing it. Set your system cache to run at 512. If you need help, I'll post it.
I don't have the complete list of what I have as I'm at work, but believe me, your gaming will be much better if you optimize your OS. What I do is create hardware profiles, one strictly for gaming (stripped down just for gaming) and then the other for normal use.
You don't need a lightning fast cpu to get BF42 to run smooth, and you don't need the fastest ram either despite what many say, so don't fall into the trap of buy brand xxx this or $$$ that. As long as you have good reliable components, mainly, it's how you have your system set up.
For video cards, I use Rage3d for my 9700 pro.
For you guys getting lag while playing online, try playing single player to see if you can duplicate it. If you have eliminated server lag as the problem, then it's likely your system needs optimizing. XP has so much junk running in the background, plus many have apps they installed that suck up system resources (and don't even realize it). Turn off all non-essential application and windowz processes. If anyone is interested, I'd be happy to post them. However, to make life simple, go here and apply this to your registry for a start:
http://www.blackviper.com/WinXP/registry.htm
Look for "SAFE" Windows XP Services Configuration
A fairly simple thing to do as well is with game running, open task manager (2000 and xp), and under Processes, right click on bf1942.exe and choose High Priority.
A few more:
1) Set QoS (quality of service) so that it reserves no bandwidth. By default, XP sets 20% aside which for most is just wasted and can cause lag if you don't have a lot of bandwidth. It can just be disabled also.
2) If running a AMD Barton or Intel that has 512 L2 cache, XP doesn't do a good job utilizing it. Set your system cache to run at 512. If you need help, I'll post it.
I don't have the complete list of what I have as I'm at work, but believe me, your gaming will be much better if you optimize your OS. What I do is create hardware profiles, one strictly for gaming (stripped down just for gaming) and then the other for normal use.
You don't need a lightning fast cpu to get BF42 to run smooth, and you don't need the fastest ram either despite what many say, so don't fall into the trap of buy brand xxx this or $$$ that. As long as you have good reliable components, mainly, it's how you have your system set up.
For video cards, I use Rage3d for my 9700 pro.
Wed Dec 17, 2003 12:42 pm
This was a few years back, but I had to choose between upgrading my video card (Geforce 1 -SDR) or processor 700 Mhz Duron. I decided to upgrade the processor to an Athlon 1.4 Ghz.
That was the RIGHT move! I couldn't believe the difference it made! ALL my games played MUCH smoother! I didn't realize how important the CPU was, especially when combined with a good video card! Based on my experience, if you have a reasonably good video card and have to choose to upgrade the card or the CPU... get the CPU upgrade first!
I'm not saying a great video card won't help, just that I was suprised at how important a good CPU is! I later upgraded my video card and that only made the graphics better! The games were playing smooth before, only they were at a lower resolution and with few graphics turned on.
I think the 9800 pro 128 is a GREAT card and I will be buying one in the near future. With that in mind.. CPU's are VERY cheap these days and I would also recommend upgrading your CPU as well. Check the spec's on your motherboard and make sure it will support your CPU upgrade first.
Good luck with your purchases!
That was the RIGHT move! I couldn't believe the difference it made! ALL my games played MUCH smoother! I didn't realize how important the CPU was, especially when combined with a good video card! Based on my experience, if you have a reasonably good video card and have to choose to upgrade the card or the CPU... get the CPU upgrade first!
I'm not saying a great video card won't help, just that I was suprised at how important a good CPU is! I later upgraded my video card and that only made the graphics better! The games were playing smooth before, only they were at a lower resolution and with few graphics turned on.
I think the 9800 pro 128 is a GREAT card and I will be buying one in the near future. With that in mind.. CPU's are VERY cheap these days and I would also recommend upgrading your CPU as well. Check the spec's on your motherboard and make sure it will support your CPU upgrade first.
Good luck with your purchases!
Wed Dec 17, 2003 12:49 pm
Oh.. one more thing. I think the REFORMAT Shockwave suggested is a good idea. I would recommend reformatting at least once per year. I know it's a BIG hassle, but you will be suprised at the performance increase of your machine. I have found that over time, as you install/uninstall programs your machine will slow down.
I only reformat my machine when something starts acting weird, which seems like once a year. It always helps to start with a fresh reformat. There's nothing like starting from a solid foundation.
I've been messing with PC's since the late 80's and have built a number of machines from scratch. I even rewired my home with Cat 5 cable to network my computers. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I have some experience with PC's.
I only reformat my machine when something starts acting weird, which seems like once a year. It always helps to start with a fresh reformat. There's nothing like starting from a solid foundation.
I've been messing with PC's since the late 80's and have built a number of machines from scratch. I even rewired my home with Cat 5 cable to network my computers. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I have some experience with PC's.
Wed Dec 17, 2003 1:28 pm
Great advice guys...the reality is that since I have no idea how to reformat my HD(s), that is likely a bad idea for me to be trying...don't you agree?
Also, I will try the other recommendations and see what difference it makes. I appreciate everyone's help...it makes me feel like a complete knob when I hear home much some of you guys know about this stuff...
Cheers!
Also, I will try the other recommendations and see what difference it makes. I appreciate everyone's help...it makes me feel like a complete knob when I hear home much some of you guys know about this stuff...
Cheers!
Wed Dec 17, 2003 1:58 pm
Originally posted by Tommy Boy
Great advice guys...the reality is that since I have no idea how to reformat my HD(s), that is likely a bad idea for me to be trying...don't you agree?
Also, I will try the other recommendations and see what difference it makes. I appreciate everyone's help...it makes me feel like a complete knob when I hear home much some of you guys know about this stuff...
Cheers!
reformatting drives is actually a really easy process. I just back up all of the information I wish to on CD's, insert the XP disc when my computer starts up, select reformat and it reformats the drivers. then it installs the OS, then I install the drivers, and it's done. I've done it quite a few times, and it gets easier each time.
Reformatting does increase the speed of your PC drastically though. My system scored 3800 in 3dmark03 before a reformat, and after the format, it scored over 5000, with the same settings and drivers. SO, it definantly does something.
Wed Dec 17, 2003 2:38 pm
Driver Cleaner v 2.6 is the newest. Download here: http://www.driverheaven.net/cleaner/ . Using it is easy Tommy, goes kinda like such:
1. download, and install.
2. Run the uninstall utility in windows's control panel for your old drivers (both ATI, but that's ok), uninstall everything ATI related in there, and DON'T reboot until you've removed 'em all, even if it tells you it wants to.
3. reboot the computer, go into safe mode (Press F8 after your BIOS screen but before windows loads). If you miss it, no big prob, you can reboot again.
4. Once in safe mode, run driver cleaner, and select ATI and have it clean the system. You'll know when it's done, and then you can reboot pc into regular windows.
5. Windows will redetect your vid card, but shouldn't be able to auto-identify it. Let it install it as a pci vide card (or something else generic). If windows wants to reboot, let it, if not go to step 6....
6. Run the installer for the newest ATI stuff (avail. on the website, probably newer than whats on the install cd; NOTE: a new version is rumoured to be coming out today, but I haven't seen it yet). reboot when done
7. Everything should be kosher now as far as vid drivers are concerned, if you keep having issues it's either background crap going on in windows, or something else (CPU, need more mem, etc). Consider reinstalling windows at that point.....
Holler if you have any more questions, or feel free to PM me...
1. download, and install.
2. Run the uninstall utility in windows's control panel for your old drivers (both ATI, but that's ok), uninstall everything ATI related in there, and DON'T reboot until you've removed 'em all, even if it tells you it wants to.
3. reboot the computer, go into safe mode (Press F8 after your BIOS screen but before windows loads). If you miss it, no big prob, you can reboot again.
4. Once in safe mode, run driver cleaner, and select ATI and have it clean the system. You'll know when it's done, and then you can reboot pc into regular windows.
5. Windows will redetect your vid card, but shouldn't be able to auto-identify it. Let it install it as a pci vide card (or something else generic). If windows wants to reboot, let it, if not go to step 6....
6. Run the installer for the newest ATI stuff (avail. on the website, probably newer than whats on the install cd; NOTE: a new version is rumoured to be coming out today, but I haven't seen it yet). reboot when done
7. Everything should be kosher now as far as vid drivers are concerned, if you keep having issues it's either background crap going on in windows, or something else (CPU, need more mem, etc). Consider reinstalling windows at that point.....
Holler if you have any more questions, or feel free to PM me...