US MILITARY ACTION IN IRAQ Y or N?

[Kristov Profile ICQ]

I voted yes, and I've stated my reasons elsewhere on these forums, so you can look em up yerselves.

Herr Renz, SilverSurfer, something you should really be aware of about the Iraq situation.

The United States does not get any oil from Iraq, and less then 25% of our TOTAL oil consumption is imported from outside the North American region.

France, Germany and Belgium on the other hand, import all of their oil, and a large percentage of it comes from Iraq. These countries also sell industrial equipment used for military purposes by Iraq AS WELL AS directly selling military equipment to Iraq, despite the UN sanctions against doing so.

So, there's a very simple and clear reason why these countries are against any military action in Iraq and the removal or overthrow of Saddam Hussien, and that reason is not morally based, it's financially based, pure and simple.

So, kindly take your 'we're more civilized then you warmongering Americans' attitude and shove it. We're wanting to stop a rabid animal before it can cause cost more innocent people their lives. You are trying to stop that because of money. I fail to see the morality of your stance, and I challenge you to show it.

[Doug the Unforgiven]

Originally posted by Allister Fiend
Oh mighty Bandit, I worship you and obey your every command (even Jerry reeds if you want).

GREEN MACHINE, GREEN MACHINE, GREEN MACHINE...





Allister Fiend

Your praise does not go unnoticed, my child. The Mighty Avatar is pleased.

[Keekanoo]

I voted no. I'd like to think I know a lot about what's going on around the world. But I don't. I could believe propaganda supplied by any side, and find all kinds of articles (whether they be based on truth or not is of course completely relevant but most just believe what helps their cause) to support my position. But I don't. What do we believe? That Saddam is a 'rabid dog' and must be taken out before he develops nukes? Or gasses the Kurds again? Do we believe that the States has been the only nation to not ratify a series of anti-nuke, anti-bio, anti-chemical accords layed out over the past 3 decades? Do we believe that the States has used gas? Chemicals? Nukes? Were they for a good cause? Who really suffers in war? It's not Saddam. It's not Bush. It's you and I and our brethren out there. I don't know what to believe. But I can apply simple logic. Given the intelligence resources of the States, England, Germany, France, etc--is anyone here daft enough to believe that we don't know exACTLY where Bin Laden is? Or Saddam (despite his having some 20 odd 'doubles')? The States has, or has access to, the most sophisticated assisination network in the world. Ever. So. We establish that this isn't about taking out Saddam. Or Bin Laden. Is it about oil? Highly unlikely. The U.S. invasion will cost approximately 45 billion dollars. Initially. Expected profits from known oil reserves in Iraq numbers approx 85 billion. We're giving Turkey 30 billion just to have military launch points. No argument there. Is it about rescuing the Iraquian people? Against what? The U.S. medical/food/supply embargos that have been decimating the population there for more than a decade? No, we're not there to help the poor people. We're going to be bombing the shit out of them with depleted uranium soon enough. And worse, is my guess. This isn't about helping the poor. We're going to kill them in droves. Is this about affecting trade deals with France and cheap oil? Ahh--now we're hitting closer to home. Is this about establishing a military presence near Israel to help them in the coming years? Good arguments to be made for that. Is this about showing the world what bad-asses the Americans are, and how nasty they can get if anyone fucks with them? How they'll use anything, and quickly, and nastilly, to establish their 'economic interests'. Iraq will be known in years ahead as the biggest butchery ever in our history. We've gone in and made sure they've got no serious weapons. We've crippled them completely. We've spied out every inch of their land. We know where everything is. This war will be a cake-walk. Millions of Iragi people will die--if not initially, then certainly later from depleted uranium and god knows what else the Americans/British will use. This is a sad chapter in American history. And it will spell the end of your great nation. For many many people, from very powerful, to very poor, will pass down to their children a hatred and determination of revenge so strong that has never been seen before. What people fail to see in this thread is that this isn't about Iraq. This is about very powerful people making lots of money and securing interests for their own very rich families. It's not about you and I and freedom. We are wage slaves here, much as the folks over there, or any country around the world are. Iraq will fall. The Arabian nations will re-unify their bonds behind closed doors. Guirella warfare using very nasty weapons will be the norm in the next few decades. And we'll sit over here, largely protected by a vast ocean, watching those 'savages' nuke, bio, chemicalize each other into smithereens. And we'll talk about freedom. We'll talk about democracy and the right to vote. The right to turn a blind eye when votes are arranged. The right to vote somone in knowing they'll never follow the ideals of their political platform. No. Sadly, it seems that this forum merely reveals how ignorant we all are as to what's really going on.
Keekanoo.

[Doug the Unforgiven]

Dude, I can't read that shit! How about a few paragraph spaces or something. It hurts my eyes to even try.

[Doug the Unforgiven]

I tried harder. All that I could get from it is that you say you don't know what's going on in the world, then you proceed to tell us what's going on in the world.

Which is it?

[COL.BUKKAKE]

So much to reply on Keek.......Do you truly believe that if we dont take out Iraq, that the Muslim nations would view us more favorably. That the terrorist will say "oh what a swell country, lets not kill their civilians"........Basically all the Arab world, and might i add many European countries(France,GeramnyBelgium) want is the end and destruction of Israel. You might say that the eropean countries I have mentioned is uncalled for, but please in Belgium now, they are telling the Hisidic Jews not to walk around in traditional garb, politics playing to their heavy populous of Muslims. Not too mention the history of these anti-semitic nations. I for one will be happy to see us squeezz France. For your socalled slaughter of Iraqi's is the most mind bending thing in your post. No nation in the history of the world, takes steps militarily to spare civilians......and as for the embargos that you so easily blame on the US for the death of Iraqi's, go ask the leader of that nation instead of building castles and mansions for himself to spread the wealth that he is recieving from our European allies for his oil (which by the way is the real reason for their stance to be against us, its not in their best interest to remove Saddam)........Sure we have many skeletons that we dont show, but hell every country has them. Are we perfect, no.....nor will we ever be, but dont forget we do whats in our best interest....screw everybody else:D If it were up to me, I would level the whole region Israel and all amd turn that sandbox into a parking lot:D

[Doug the Unforgiven]

"...but dont forget we do whats in our best interest....screw everybody else" --Bukk

That's part of the problem -- we don't screw everybody else. We constantly help other nations and they hate us for it, even if they ask for our help. We shouldn't stop helping other countries, but if they bite the hand that THEY ask to feed them, then we should cut them off, even if just for a little while. Why not, they'll hate us either way. They attack our prosperity, but it's that very prosperity that enables us to help them.

Maybe it's just fashionable to hate the top dog no matter how friendly, charitable, and loyal that dog has been.

[Keekanoo]

My appologies for the text appearing in one massive chunk. I'm a writer and tend, when doing draft, just to bash it out. I revise and make it pretty later.

As for what I know and don't know, Doug, I wanted to establish that 'facts' can be easily manipulated by any party. I have access to massive amounts of stats and essays regarding the conflict in the middle east, but I don't trust them anymore than I trust the popular newspapers and tabloids. Seeing is believing. I havn't been over there. I don't know if that's Saddams 'castle' or a picture from somewhere else. I don't know if Saddam paid for it out of money he's made through business, the stock-market, or raping the countries coffers. I did get carried away and throw a few 'stats' type things in there, but they are fairly common knowledge anyways. What I wanted to do was point out that most of us are easily swayed by propaganda and don't apply simple reason to things.

Bukkake...."Do you truly believe that if we dont take out Iraq, that the Muslim nations would view us more favorably"

I'm not at all sure how you arrived at this sentiment from my post. There are millions of muslims living here as well as there. Though Bush and his supporters are largely Christian zealots, I don't think this coming conflict has anything to do with religion. It is about money and power. And not for you and I. Who pays for this attack on Iraq? The working slave-wage, that's who. We pay for it out of our taxes. Our children will be paying for this one with their taxes. Who makes the money from making the war-materials? Anyone here? Anyone here have billion dollar investments in military production facilities? Anyone? No. Everyone here is basically middle class. Wage earners. This war is another massive transferal of wealth from us ..... to 'them'. And yes, Saddam will not be killed. Saddam will walk away from this with billions of dollars in pay-offs. From us. We'll slap his hand publically. He'll write books. Perhaps condone some movie-rights that some hollywood fucks will use to show what a bad bad man he 'was'. And we'll all eat popcorn and drink Coke nodding to each other with 'Yup, I knew it. What an asshole. Good thing we fucked him over real good'. Please.

[Keekanoo]

And wasn't Burt Reynolds gay?

[COL.BUKKAKE]

Originally posted by Keekanoo
And wasn't Burt Reynolds gay?

Out of all the things you have posted, this is by far the most damaging. How dare you sir! I would like to see a retraction and an apology......To accuse a living legend like Burt Reynolds, of sucking man vein, goes far beyond anything the terrorist have done.......I'm trying to forgive you, but I'm finding it very difficult.

[Allister Fiend Profile Website]

Originally posted by Keekanoo
And wasn't Burt Reynolds gay?

Master Reynolds... as a loyal servant and devote follower, would you like for me to start up my '77 Trans Am and run his ass over for those blasphemous remarks.


Allister Fiend;)




Quotes:

Buford T. Justice: "There is no way, NO way that you came from my loins. The first thing I'm gonna do when I get home is punch your momma in the mouth."


Junior: "My hat blew off, daddy."
Buford T. Justice: "I hope your goddamn head was in it."


Buford T. Justice: "Nobody makes Sheriff Buford T. Justice look like a possum's pecker."


Sheriff Branford: "The fact that you are a sheriff is not germane to the situation."
Buford T. Justice: "The god damn Germans got nothin' to do with it!"

[COL.BUKKAKE]

This pic is for you Keekanoo, just marvel at his hulkin hairy chest, the tight shorts visible under the water........... uummm where was I....Oh yeah now take back what you said.

[Doug the Unforgiven]

Bukkake and Allister, THE MIGHTY AVATAR acknowledges your loyalty. Enlightenment is but a short travel for those with such loyalty to The Avatar.

As for the heretic -- The Avatar witnesses this blasphemy, but there is little he wishes to do to stop it. The Great Avatar is merciful!! For you see, the heretic is already being punished quite severely -- he is in Canada.

[Allister Fiend Profile Website]

[quote]Originally posted by Keekanoo
It is about money and power. And not for you and I. Who pays for this attack on Iraq? The working slave-wage, that's who.

This war is another massive transferal of wealth from us ..... to 'them'.



Keekanoo,

You sound like a very angry miserable person to begin with, all I hear from you is how this is an us versus them, rich versus poor thing. I hate to say this but even if the world was free of war you would still be sitting around bitching about something.

If you don't like your "slave-wage", maybe you should quite writing and start working at a real job, most wealthy people busted their ass to get where they are. I'm sure they did not sit around all day and complain about how it's everyone elses fault they are where they are. Besides, I don't know of anyone who has a halfway decent job and got it from a poor person.

Also, you keep saying that you don't trust anything you read from either side, but from the sounds of things, you do believe one side.


Allister Fiend

[Doug the Unforgiven]

BTW, Keekano,
You try to tell us we're all being duped by propaganda, then you write that last paragraph. Huh???

I'm sorry, but that last paragraph just sounded like a bunch of conspiracy theory stuff. Is that not also propaganda?:lol: