Read with Caution

by **Jeffro** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:14 pm

Originally posted by -HaVoC-
Ya know Colonel I hear ya. There are days when I think that one side or someone somewhere has to put the gun down.

Then there are days when I want to repay the hatred with hatred.

Two things really bother me here.

1. We give more to the world than anyone PERIOD! No one gives back to the world like we do. Not even close. We allow 100's of thousands of people in here to benefit from our country's prosperity, and how are we thanked? They bad mouth us while they stand in line at Market Basket with food stamps from 5 different names they use. I owned a house in a city that was about 90% Spanish and let me tell I couldn't leave the yard. Hell now that I think about about 50 kids each day couldn't leave my yard either, except for the time they left with my TV among other things.

This really boils my blood. Show some respect and thanks for the good things that are shared with you or get the hell out.

2. The second is American citizens bad mouthing our government. Ya know there are proper ways to protest and make a point to try and enact change. Call your president Hitler isn't one of them. Show some fking respect. Watching those protester videos made me want to move to Canada.

Where's the common sense in the Middle East? They kill each others children cause God said to. Where's the common sense in the west? We call our leaders vile things and never protest with pictures of Yassar Arafat. Why?

I think it's because the human race needs conflict. I really do. I think without we would be bored. I think we thrive on antagonism just to keep ourselves entertained. Am I wrong?

Without world war 2...now how could we play bf1942?

j/k

Seriously...

I agree with you on almost every point...

I think religion hurts people more than it helps

by **Bagginses** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:18 pm

Originally posted by -HaVoC-
I think it's because the human race needs conflict. I really do. I think without it we would be bored. I think we thrive on antagonism just to keep ourselves entertained. Am I wrong?

I think you're dead on right. Human beings crave conflict. That's what makes us tick. There will never be world peace unless we get attacked by aliens and we can all gang up to go have a conflict with them. I mean, look at WWII. The only way we could make peace with the USSR was to gang up on Germany. Then, once Germany's done, we go back to fighting each other. The American colonies ganged up on the British Empire. Then, with them gone, we start bickering among ourselves until we have a Civil War. Conflict is the steam valve that keeps the human race from exploding under the pressure.

-Bagginses

by **Jeffro** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:20 pm

Originally posted by Bagginses
. There will never be world peace unless we get attacked by aliens and we can all gang

Don't forget Artificial Intelligence...

I'm not sure if i would consider that an oxymoron or not...

by **-HaVoC-** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:28 pm

Well if that's the way of the human race, and I beleive it is, then I say aim everything we have east and put the hammer down. If there can be no peace, if humanity can't rise above it all, then I wanna be behind the biggest guns. So let's stop trying to keep face with the world and show these people the only thing they understand... FORCE!

Do you remember Daniel Pearl? I do. He went in peace and left in a casket.

http://wsws.org/articles/2002/feb2002/pear-f23.shtml

There is no talking to the fanatics of Islam that populate the world. Ala awaits them and maybe we can help them find their version of him.

by **Bagginses** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:32 pm

But then the problem is, who do we fight once all the extremist Muslims are gone? Do we decide to go get rid of Communism? Let's get rid of all the dictatorships in Africa. Then we need to get rid of everyone who opposed those actions. Then when there's no one left to fight, we fight amongst ourselves, and we split back up again into several groups until one of those groups grows so large it caves into smaller groups, then so on, and so on. If there's any one definite thing I've learned in life, is that there is no definite answer to any problem.

-Bagginses

by **-HaVoC-** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:36 pm

True Bagginses. Sitting here I thought that maybe the solution instead of annialating them is to fallback. To use our extensive military to surround the US and to keep out everyone and kill anything that moves in the general direction of us.

I mean these kind of theory's seem outrageous. But what's the alternative, let our political system stall in a partisan quagmire while they plan another attack?

It's hopeless.

by **Bagginses** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:38 pm

Originally posted by -HaVoC-
True Bagginses. Sitting here I thought that maybe the solution instead of annialating them is to fallback. To use our extensive military to surround the US and to keep out everyone and kill anything that moves in the general direction of us.

I mean these kind of theory's seem outrageous. But what's the alternative, let our political system stall in a partisan quagmire while they plan another attack?

It's hopeless.

I sure know that feeling. Just be glad that it's not your responsibility to make those decisions for millions and millions of people.

-Bagginses

by **Colonel Ingus** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 7:03 pm

KEAALGSTO

Kill'Em All And Let God Sort Them Out.

I think you guys may be looking at this wrong. There's always going to be assholes out there. The trick is wether there is enough of us to say "Hey Asshole, knock it off" without worrying about "looking good" to our neighbors.

You'd be surprised how many people I have arguements with who just can't seem to grasp the fact that there are certain people out there that need a good ass whipping. on the individual level and on the larger scales of society and states.
Violence IS an answer, and a damned effective one too. Its pretty damn final. You kill someone right and he won't be around to bother you in the future.

When you "turn the other cheek" there's plenty of people out there who will smack that one too.

I put this up in another post but I will summarize it here. There are 3 types of people in the world. Sheep, Sheepdogs, and Wolves. The sheeps are the ones blathering here and could give a shit about the sheepdogs as long as they are safe. Wait until they aren't safe anymore and come crying to the dogs to protect them from the wolves. And they dream sheep dreams about a world without wolves but any realist knows that just isn't going to happen so we will always need sheepdogs to protect them.

I can't stress enough how there is absolutely nothing wrong with violent solutions and how we shouldn't be embarassed to use them. Now it doesn't have to be our first choice but we had better be willing and able to make that choice when necessary. But as I said earlier these protestors are more interested in their political viewpoint than in doing whats correct and necessary.

Pulling out and creating Fortress America is the worst thing we could do. I am not advocating ruling the world. I think Empire is the wrong way to go. But its better to kick their ass where they live and not let them come and mess shit up at our house.

If we pulled out that entire region goes into the shitter and we are worse off than if we stay the course. I don't like it. I don't like giving them 80 billion with no returns. I hate the fact that fellow service members are dying over there. But its too late to worry about why's and wherefores. We are beyond that and either we finish the job off right or we screw the pooch, leave, and end up in a shitstorm a few more years down the road.

Nobody likes the bad when it is happening but dealing with things now is more important than letting them get worse in the future. History has proven that many times.

by **-HaVoC-** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:05 pm

Werd.

by **PudriK** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:09 pm

I, for one, am tired of trying to give freedom to people who may or may not want it, and aren't willing to fight for it themselves. The sorry beggars demand the US' help, then complain when we show up. Fuck 'em. If another country harms our interests, we should go in, smack 'em around, and leave.

We can't give democracy to these people... they will only resent us for it, and call their new government a puppet. The only way to change them is let them be exposed to our culture through trade and media, and hope a few sharp minds within their culture will help them evolve. We have enough ignorant people in our own countries, despite our citizens' copious access to information... there is no way to bring these people around.

I have no patience for a people who whip themselves for prayer and train their children to be suicide bombers. They deserve their fate--let them have it.

The bur up Osama's ass is we had troops in the Holy Land. Why not just leave? I don't care if that part of the world is unstable, as long as it doesn't spread to peaceful nations, and as long as we keep getting cheap oil, then I'm happy. It would be a lot easier to invade and capture a few oil fields of our own if there was no government there to complain about it.

PS I know the above is completely impracticle, but those are my feelings on the matter.

by **Jeffro** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:40 pm

Originally posted by PudriK
I, for one, am tired of trying to give freedom to people who may or may not want it, and aren't willing to fight for it themselves. The sorry beggars demand the US' help, then complain when we show up. Fuck 'em. If another country harms our interests, we should go in, smack 'em around, and leave.

We can't give democracy to these people... they will only resent us for it, and call their new government a puppet. The only way to change them is let them be exposed to our culture through trade and media, and hope a few sharp minds within their culture will help them evolve. We have enough ignorant people in our own countries, despite our citizens' copious access to information... there is no way to bring these people around.

I have no patience for a people who whip themselves for prayer and train their children to be suicide bombers. They deserve their fate--let them have it.

The bur up Osama's ass is we had troops in the Holy Land. Why not just leave? I don't care if that part of the world is unstable, as long as it doesn't spread to peaceful nations, and as long as we keep getting cheap oil, then I'm happy. It would be a lot easier to invade and capture a few oil fields of our own if there was no government there to complain about it.

PS I know the above is completely impracticle, but those are my feelings on the matter.

One scary feeling is of another holocaust...

Instead of jews it would be with muslims...

Highly doubtful, but still a possibility for that to happen...

by **deathBOB** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:54 pm

Its all economics... IMO, religion was created for economic purposes... The root cause of all the world problems is class and economic difference between different peoples and races... Course, theres always some sickos who do things just because....

by **Bagginses** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 9:14 pm

I agree with Ingus that pulling our troops out of Iraq would be one of the biggest mistakes our government could ever make and I'm glad that Bush said tonight that they will remain as long as necessary. Now I'm not a Bush supporter, but I still think that he's a reasonable guy. There are plenty of things that he could have handled better, but I also don't think he royally screwed up.

However, I tend to agree with him on the notion that the vast majority of Iraqi people are just like us who wake up in the morning, get dressed, take a piss, then go about their daily business. I firmly believe that the media loves to scare us into thinking that the entire Middle East is in an uproar of anti-Americanism. I'm sure there are things they wish we were handling differently, and as Bush said tonight, I'm sure they're not happy about being occupied, but I think in the long run they appreciate it. I dunno, life's a mess, but how do we clean it up?

-Bagginses

by **Murgatroyd** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 9:32 pm

Originally posted by Bagginses
I firmly believe that the media loves to scare us into thinking that the entire Middle East is in an uproar of anti-Americanism.

I've been avoiding American media. I find much better reporting (objective) from sources like the BBC. It all started when I couldn't figure out whether CNN or Fox News was accurately reporting the scale of the "uprising" in Iraq. Fuck the American media. Trying to make money off of terrifying people. Pricks. I wonder how they sleep at night.

by **PudriK** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 10:01 pm

On the radio, try NPR as well. Many have complained of their bias, and it is sometimes detectable, but they also provide a lot of information and their hosted debates include both sides and are calm, reasoned, and informed. Highly recommended after listening to Boortz, Limbaugh, and Hannity in the morning, is Talk of the Nation and All Things Considered in the afternoon.

As for web sites, check out:
http://www.thememoryhole.com
http://www.reason.com
english.aljazeera.net
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english

On topic, so if we aren't going to let these people kill each other, what do we do? Decades of peace talks run by the US and UN haven't helped the situation in Israel. To my mind, the only way to end the bloodshed is to build a wall, put the Israelis on one side, the Palestinians on the other, and forbid them from contact with each other. Or build a wall around them, and let them fight it out. Simplistic, yes, but these two groups have been fighting like children for too long, perhaps it's time to treat them as such.

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