US MILITARY ACTION IN IRAQ Y or N?
- Doug the Unforgiven
by Doug the Unforgiven » Fri Feb 28, 2003 9:12 am
Maybe this is what our anti-Bush, anti-American friends are afraid will happen in Iraq:
Afghanistan
Afghanistan
by bayotanzk » Fri Feb 28, 2003 9:13 am
Read something on fox that said that. But, it also said in that the last time france used veto was the suez canal like 1948 or 1953? Will be interesting to see what happens. It sounds as though George W. is going in, seems stupid for the froggs not to get on the band wagon. Politicans in france want to support, polls say people say NO.
486 dx 50 -32 megs ram -8 meg vid card -120 meg HD -14"vga monitor, dos 5.0
- angrybrit
by angrybrit » Fri Feb 28, 2003 3:28 pm
"The country has been held back for 25 years, and now is the time to invest and do business. Afghans are very good at this -- we've been doing it since the time of the Silk Road." - Quote from the link.
[SARCASM]Americans are evil. OMG! Don't you believe the horrors. Don't you know war never solved anything?[/SARCASM]
They should make a 'Bitch slap a liberal day.':D
[SARCASM]Americans are evil. OMG! Don't you believe the horrors. Don't you know war never solved anything?[/SARCASM]
They should make a 'Bitch slap a liberal day.':D
- angrybrit
by angrybrit » Fri Feb 28, 2003 3:34 pm
Here's a friendly gesture toward the far left, celebrities and their ilk:
....................../´¯/)
....................,/¯../
.................../..../
............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
........../'/.../..../......./¨¯\
.........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
.........\.................'...../
..........''...\.......... _.·´
............\..............(
..............\.............\..
lol
....................../´¯/)
....................,/¯../
.................../..../
............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
........../'/.../..../......./¨¯\
.........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
.........\.................'...../
..........''...\.......... _.·´
............\..............(
..............\.............\..
lol
- Anton
by Anton » Fri Feb 28, 2003 5:16 pm
Dear Doug the Unforgiving,
You are apparently of the opinion that I 'have no credibility whatsoever'...
Hmm....You're a clinically fascinating case Doug....Freud and the boys would undoubtedly have loved to get their hands on you...
I suppose what you mean by having 'no credibility' is that my arguments are impeccable, my factual knowledge voluminous..and you don't have the first clue about how to 'debunk' them other than throwing out totally inane judgmental statements.
So if my arguments are so 'easily debunked' Herr Unforgiving.....go ahead and take a stab at it.....double dare ya.
Now, I had promised I would reply to an earlier question about Kuwait and the lead up to the Gulf War (1991)....but I think I'll do that in a later post (the discussion would take longer than I can afford today).
Let me respond then to Col Bukkake's moderately rational question about 'what our (Keekano and me, I presume) solution to the Iraq 'crisis would be'.
Simply leave them the hell alone. They're no threat to anyone. They're not doing anyonw any harm. The 'Allies' are the ones that have been starving ..
....(you do remember the 1.5 million dead over the last decade?)
....and bombing (the US and has been 'controlling' their airspace for a decade now) the hell out of them, not the other way 'round.
If we were going to do anything we should put pressure on our dear 'ally', Turkey, which has murdere tens of thousands of its Kurdish population over the last couple of decades, to cease and desist....How about bringing the hammer down on them?
(Of course, the reason 'we' don't is becasuse their 'government' is a puppet regime under total US colonial control and does exactly what their told....unlike Hussein who, though once an honoured ally of the US - when it suited Washington's purpose i.e. the Iran / Iraq War - began to pursue a nationalist (and, God forbid, socialist!) economic agenda).
,
As for the Col's rather more pointed question about what the world would look like without the US....That's perhaps an interesting late night speculation with a whiskey and crystal ball in hand....
The point is...it doesn't matter. The point is....a wrong doesn't make a right. If the US is the present day Rome (which it is....you simply have to be blind and stupid not to see this) and if it is going about the world (all under the guise of 'humanitarian concerns, or 'anti-communism', or 'the war on drugs', or some other totally transparent cover) trashing smaller, weaker countries, stealing their resources, exploiting their labour forces etc....
...then it's simply wrong. Period.
I don't have to worry about the wrongs of past or hypothetical empires....I deal with reality as it is. I'm trying in my tiny little way to strive towards 'a better world'...in the here and now.
And perhaps your fears are correct Bukkake....Perhaps the nature of man is simply too 'immature' to allow the awakening of enough people to their own manipulation and exploitation (and, significant to this discussion...to *their being manipulated to exploit others*) to make an historical difference.
As I say....perhaps that is the case. That's the pessimistic view, though certainly one that can rationally be debated.
I prefer to believe that brave men and women (ordinary men and women) have and can do marvelous things...I believe this also to be a rationally supportable supposition.
What we actually *choose* to do with our little lives is, of course, up to us. But I'd rather fight for something 'good' rather than go along with something I know to be 'bad'. (What's that Eastern spiritual adage..."Lying destroys essence"..)
If you choose to call that 'anti-American', so be it.
Actually, of course, I'm just 'anti' the bunch of criminal gangsters who are presently in control of your country...
...And mine for that matter.
I mean, has *our* (the Canadian gov't) totally sold us out to American and corporate interests? You bet your booty it has.
(The so-called 'Free Trade Agreement - 1988, that 'we' signed with the US was, after all, neither about freedom or trade....it was about treason, and the total selling out our natural resouces and the opening up to attack of our vaunted social programs by private interests).
As Keekano pointed out. we have plenty of American friends...In any case, I don't really believe in 'evil'...
....just in ignorance.
And as it turns out, Col Bukkake....the 10 million or more strong protests around the world give some weight to the notion that homo-normalis *can* wake up.
In any case, I'd rather 'fight the good fight' ...than be a *f...king* asshole.
Anton
You are apparently of the opinion that I 'have no credibility whatsoever'...
Hmm....You're a clinically fascinating case Doug....Freud and the boys would undoubtedly have loved to get their hands on you...
I suppose what you mean by having 'no credibility' is that my arguments are impeccable, my factual knowledge voluminous..and you don't have the first clue about how to 'debunk' them other than throwing out totally inane judgmental statements.
So if my arguments are so 'easily debunked' Herr Unforgiving.....go ahead and take a stab at it.....double dare ya.
Now, I had promised I would reply to an earlier question about Kuwait and the lead up to the Gulf War (1991)....but I think I'll do that in a later post (the discussion would take longer than I can afford today).
Let me respond then to Col Bukkake's moderately rational question about 'what our (Keekano and me, I presume) solution to the Iraq 'crisis would be'.
Simply leave them the hell alone. They're no threat to anyone. They're not doing anyonw any harm. The 'Allies' are the ones that have been starving ..
....(you do remember the 1.5 million dead over the last decade?)
....and bombing (the US and has been 'controlling' their airspace for a decade now) the hell out of them, not the other way 'round.
If we were going to do anything we should put pressure on our dear 'ally', Turkey, which has murdere tens of thousands of its Kurdish population over the last couple of decades, to cease and desist....How about bringing the hammer down on them?
(Of course, the reason 'we' don't is becasuse their 'government' is a puppet regime under total US colonial control and does exactly what their told....unlike Hussein who, though once an honoured ally of the US - when it suited Washington's purpose i.e. the Iran / Iraq War - began to pursue a nationalist (and, God forbid, socialist!) economic agenda).
,
As for the Col's rather more pointed question about what the world would look like without the US....That's perhaps an interesting late night speculation with a whiskey and crystal ball in hand....
The point is...it doesn't matter. The point is....a wrong doesn't make a right. If the US is the present day Rome (which it is....you simply have to be blind and stupid not to see this) and if it is going about the world (all under the guise of 'humanitarian concerns, or 'anti-communism', or 'the war on drugs', or some other totally transparent cover) trashing smaller, weaker countries, stealing their resources, exploiting their labour forces etc....
...then it's simply wrong. Period.
I don't have to worry about the wrongs of past or hypothetical empires....I deal with reality as it is. I'm trying in my tiny little way to strive towards 'a better world'...in the here and now.
And perhaps your fears are correct Bukkake....Perhaps the nature of man is simply too 'immature' to allow the awakening of enough people to their own manipulation and exploitation (and, significant to this discussion...to *their being manipulated to exploit others*) to make an historical difference.
As I say....perhaps that is the case. That's the pessimistic view, though certainly one that can rationally be debated.
I prefer to believe that brave men and women (ordinary men and women) have and can do marvelous things...I believe this also to be a rationally supportable supposition.
What we actually *choose* to do with our little lives is, of course, up to us. But I'd rather fight for something 'good' rather than go along with something I know to be 'bad'. (What's that Eastern spiritual adage..."Lying destroys essence"..)
If you choose to call that 'anti-American', so be it.
Actually, of course, I'm just 'anti' the bunch of criminal gangsters who are presently in control of your country...
...And mine for that matter.
I mean, has *our* (the Canadian gov't) totally sold us out to American and corporate interests? You bet your booty it has.
(The so-called 'Free Trade Agreement - 1988, that 'we' signed with the US was, after all, neither about freedom or trade....it was about treason, and the total selling out our natural resouces and the opening up to attack of our vaunted social programs by private interests).
As Keekano pointed out. we have plenty of American friends...In any case, I don't really believe in 'evil'...
....just in ignorance.
And as it turns out, Col Bukkake....the 10 million or more strong protests around the world give some weight to the notion that homo-normalis *can* wake up.
In any case, I'd rather 'fight the good fight' ...than be a *f...king* asshole.
Anton
- Ralph Wiggum
by Ralph Wiggum » Fri Feb 28, 2003 5:57 pm
Turkey and Canada are both bought and paid for, eh? Even Germany appears to be wavering in its anti-war at all costs stand. I guess all right thinking people must now pin their hopes and dreams on Iraq, North Korea, and those other brave regimes who thumb their noses at U.S. hegemony. It's too bad the Taliban aren't in charge in Afghanistan anymore.
- Ralph Wiggum
by Ralph Wiggum » Fri Feb 28, 2003 6:05 pm
I forgot to mention Yasser Arafat. He's proven himself as a leader, and still had time to amass quite a fortune. See http://forbes.com/forbes/2003/0317/134.html. I'm sure he did it ethically, unlike the "criminal gangsters" (is there any other kind?) who run my country.
- COL.BUKKAKE
by COL.BUKKAKE » Fri Feb 28, 2003 6:24 pm
Originally posted by Anton
And as it turns out, Col Bukkake....the 10 million or more strong protests around the world give some weight to the notion that homo-normalis *can* wake up.
In any case, I'd rather 'fight the good fight' ...than be a *f...king* asshole.
Anton
10 million? 75 million people watched the last episode of Joe Millionaire:D
- Allister Fiend
-
- Posts: 70
- Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 9:39 am
- Location: Orlando, Florida USA
by Allister Fiend » Fri Feb 28, 2003 7:17 pm
Originally posted by Anton
And as it turns out, Col Bukkake....the 10 million or more strong protests around the world
Anton
It's amazing how this number gets higher and higher every day that passes...simply amazing.
Most are just taking advantage of the situation, half of them could care less about Iraq.
Allister Fiend
- Anton
by Anton » Sat Mar 01, 2003 2:10 am
Doug the Unforgiving states, "It's not worth my time to explain."
....Chicken....
What the hell do you think I'm doing on this website wrestling with macho / military / my-country-right-or wrong 'patriots' like you for? Do I back-out from 'explaining' myself to *you*..even though I'm outnumbered like fifty to one?....C'mon Doug, you can do better than that.
Col Bukkake.....As for the 10 million protesters vs the 75 million watchers of Joe Millionaire....
First, I don't dispute for a second that vast swathes of the rank-and-file are in thrall to the corporate/state run press (the 'free press' as it likes to glorify itself).
How else to account for - let me put this charitably - the lack of factual content and accuracy, as well as dearth of historical context of the arguments I come across in this forum?
But really, what we witnessed on Feb. 15 is historically unparalled.... For the first time in recorded history (partly as a result of the necessary technology, of course) a world wide orchestrated movement sought to counter the up to now virtual total staight jacket that rulers have always exercised over the ruled.
(Ideas sometimes have their day.....Though 'democracy' and 'social justice' and 'equality' and such are observed more in the breach than the rule, the fact is that people often come to own these ideas and eventually demand some sort of adherence to them by their rulers ...sorry...governments...The ideas that the masses begin to 'own' now simply need to become more sophisticated i.e. 'military keynesianism', 'class warfare', 'corporate welfare' etc.)
Moreover, the 3 million protesters in Rome, the 2 million in London etc. were just the tip of the iceberg. In Britain 85% of the population is now adamantly opposed to a US attack (it's not a 'war'; a war is when some other side has some semblance of a chance of defending itself) without UN backing. Almost 50% are against it no matter what.
In France and Italy the figures are the same.
A recent meeting of the NAM (the non-aligned movement) i.e. the majority of the countrys of the world have come out decisively against it.
So has China, Russia....
And a recent statement by 52 African countries ( 3 of whom are non-permanent members of the present security council) came out last Thursday denouncing any attack against Iraq without UN backing.
So....the millions protesting (I was one of 80,000 in Toronto on the bitterest of cold days) the US's intention to launch an unprovoked attack on a helpless country....are just the most visible surface of a much deeper current.
Indeed, what you *don't* see on the TV reportage of such events is how truly radical they are (The press does everything in its power to defang the reality of these things).
The majority of protesters in Toronto weren't there with little namby-pamby signs saying "Peace" or "Make Love not War"....They were saying "Regime change in Washington", "Screw Capitalism", "Real Democracy Now!", "No Blood for Oil!", "Corporate Media = Corporate Lies".... "Bush is Sauron - Save the Shire".
You also don't 'see' the pivotal changes in consciousness that often take place in those participating in solidarity with one another.....That's something the cameras don't pick up.
As for Joe Millionaire....A damnable confession it is, but...
..I was one of the 75 million.
Ralph Wiggam....
Yep,..
(I never thought I'd be saying this in this forum) ...
..you're right on that one. Arafat's 'loyalities' and motivations etc. are certainly something less than pristine. (This all notwithstanding, of course, the fact that I haven't mentioned Arafat or the Palestinian situation in any of my postings).
The entire tangled web that comprises what I'll call for now (for simplicity's sake) the 'leadership of the Palestinian resistance' is freighted with dark threads....Still, so are *our* leaderships in *our* respective countries..(let alone the Israeli government).
The checkered past (and present) of the 'Palestinian leadership' does not in any way, however, pass judgement on the hopes, aspirations and efforts of the Palestinian *people* themselves.
As for '"criminal gangsters".....yeh, a redundancy....but then I'm not caviling about the grammar of everyone I read on this site....Bigger fish to fry.
Anton
....Chicken....
What the hell do you think I'm doing on this website wrestling with macho / military / my-country-right-or wrong 'patriots' like you for? Do I back-out from 'explaining' myself to *you*..even though I'm outnumbered like fifty to one?....C'mon Doug, you can do better than that.
Col Bukkake.....As for the 10 million protesters vs the 75 million watchers of Joe Millionaire....
First, I don't dispute for a second that vast swathes of the rank-and-file are in thrall to the corporate/state run press (the 'free press' as it likes to glorify itself).
How else to account for - let me put this charitably - the lack of factual content and accuracy, as well as dearth of historical context of the arguments I come across in this forum?
But really, what we witnessed on Feb. 15 is historically unparalled.... For the first time in recorded history (partly as a result of the necessary technology, of course) a world wide orchestrated movement sought to counter the up to now virtual total staight jacket that rulers have always exercised over the ruled.
(Ideas sometimes have their day.....Though 'democracy' and 'social justice' and 'equality' and such are observed more in the breach than the rule, the fact is that people often come to own these ideas and eventually demand some sort of adherence to them by their rulers ...sorry...governments...The ideas that the masses begin to 'own' now simply need to become more sophisticated i.e. 'military keynesianism', 'class warfare', 'corporate welfare' etc.)
Moreover, the 3 million protesters in Rome, the 2 million in London etc. were just the tip of the iceberg. In Britain 85% of the population is now adamantly opposed to a US attack (it's not a 'war'; a war is when some other side has some semblance of a chance of defending itself) without UN backing. Almost 50% are against it no matter what.
In France and Italy the figures are the same.
A recent meeting of the NAM (the non-aligned movement) i.e. the majority of the countrys of the world have come out decisively against it.
So has China, Russia....
And a recent statement by 52 African countries ( 3 of whom are non-permanent members of the present security council) came out last Thursday denouncing any attack against Iraq without UN backing.
So....the millions protesting (I was one of 80,000 in Toronto on the bitterest of cold days) the US's intention to launch an unprovoked attack on a helpless country....are just the most visible surface of a much deeper current.
Indeed, what you *don't* see on the TV reportage of such events is how truly radical they are (The press does everything in its power to defang the reality of these things).
The majority of protesters in Toronto weren't there with little namby-pamby signs saying "Peace" or "Make Love not War"....They were saying "Regime change in Washington", "Screw Capitalism", "Real Democracy Now!", "No Blood for Oil!", "Corporate Media = Corporate Lies".... "Bush is Sauron - Save the Shire".
You also don't 'see' the pivotal changes in consciousness that often take place in those participating in solidarity with one another.....That's something the cameras don't pick up.
As for Joe Millionaire....A damnable confession it is, but...
..I was one of the 75 million.
Ralph Wiggam....
Yep,..
(I never thought I'd be saying this in this forum) ...
..you're right on that one. Arafat's 'loyalities' and motivations etc. are certainly something less than pristine. (This all notwithstanding, of course, the fact that I haven't mentioned Arafat or the Palestinian situation in any of my postings).
The entire tangled web that comprises what I'll call for now (for simplicity's sake) the 'leadership of the Palestinian resistance' is freighted with dark threads....Still, so are *our* leaderships in *our* respective countries..(let alone the Israeli government).
The checkered past (and present) of the 'Palestinian leadership' does not in any way, however, pass judgement on the hopes, aspirations and efforts of the Palestinian *people* themselves.
As for '"criminal gangsters".....yeh, a redundancy....but then I'm not caviling about the grammar of everyone I read on this site....Bigger fish to fry.
Anton
- Rule of Wrist
by Rule of Wrist » Sat Mar 01, 2003 3:06 am
Let's all give Anton a hand!
He's figured everything out!
We should abandon all of our interests everywhere and give up our worldly posessions and accept rule by the masses. True democracy! (Not mob rule, no...) Only then can we start to fix our horrible lives that we only are delusional in enjoying, we need to wake up to the fact we are all pawns in some sick game! Yes! Everyone! Nobody should have anything different than anybody else... somebody's taller than you and you don't like it? Cut off their legs until they're the same as you! (just hope both of you don't run into Verne Troyer).
Only through getting everybody equal can we finally enter this utopia (can't say heaven, that would be.... shudder... religious...). Some may not like it, but THEY are just deluded morons who don't know the joys of equality! They're not any smarter or faster or better than anybody else! And if they are, we can fix that!
In summary, you are all wrong and we are all right. Up with the people and down with the corporations, companies, government, republicans, libertarians, white people, errr, laws, the AARP, the NRA, uhhh... and anyone else who disagrees!!!(losers)
(This post is due to the revelations that Anton has given me. I am now "awake" and boy do I have crust in my eyes. Whew!)
He's figured everything out!
We should abandon all of our interests everywhere and give up our worldly posessions and accept rule by the masses. True democracy! (Not mob rule, no...) Only then can we start to fix our horrible lives that we only are delusional in enjoying, we need to wake up to the fact we are all pawns in some sick game! Yes! Everyone! Nobody should have anything different than anybody else... somebody's taller than you and you don't like it? Cut off their legs until they're the same as you! (just hope both of you don't run into Verne Troyer).
Only through getting everybody equal can we finally enter this utopia (can't say heaven, that would be.... shudder... religious...). Some may not like it, but THEY are just deluded morons who don't know the joys of equality! They're not any smarter or faster or better than anybody else! And if they are, we can fix that!
In summary, you are all wrong and we are all right. Up with the people and down with the corporations, companies, government, republicans, libertarians, white people, errr, laws, the AARP, the NRA, uhhh... and anyone else who disagrees!!!(losers)
(This post is due to the revelations that Anton has given me. I am now "awake" and boy do I have crust in my eyes. Whew!)
- Allister Fiend
-
- Posts: 70
- Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 9:39 am
- Location: Orlando, Florida USA
by Allister Fiend » Sat Mar 01, 2003 9:12 am
Originally posted by Anton
The majority of protesters in Toronto weren't there with little namby-pamby signs saying "Peace" or "Make Love not War"....They were saying "Regime change in Washington", "Screw Capitalism", "Real Democracy Now!", "No Blood for Oil!", "Corporate Media = Corporate Lies".... "Bush is Sauron - Save the Shire".
Anton
Anton,
You keep proving my point, the protest are not at all about anti-war, (well maybe about 10% is anti-war), they are about anti-President Bush and anti-Capitalism.
If you look at the organizers of these protest (see earlier post by myself someone around here), you will see that they are sponsors of communism, socialism, and a ton of other groups that could care less about Iraq and a war, just their agenda.
You don't like President Bush or the fact that he is for Capitalism. Where were the protests, or yourself, when clinton attacked Kosovo without U.N. support and against a nation that had done nothing to the US. That's right, they were no where, because clinton is a socialist as most of the democratic party are in this country. This always happens when a Republican president gets into power, the left will do anything to discredit them. (BTW, Reagan did not start WWIII like the left swore he would.)
Also, just to let it be known, I was a registered democrat for 16 years, I work in a union, and have voted democrat for 16 years, (and yes, I even voted for gore), but that is the last time I ever vote democrat, I have since seen what they are really trying to do and have switched parties. I thank God every day that Bush is in office. (and yes, I still bang my head against the wall every time I think about the vote I gave gore.)(banging head against desk right now...thump, thump, thump.)
Gotto go, wish I had more time to post some links.
Allister Fiend
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests