RTCW - The Harsh State Of Things

[method']

Yes I do, but only in an effort to help the server, I offered myself as a precedent because thats how firmly I believe something other than waiting for PB should be done and whatever It Is Im sure would benefit ECGN.

I have absolutly no opinion of them as people because i dont know them personally on any level what so ever. Im not sure what your getting at but I do know hackers (edit dont play with them anymore because i have my own principles with how I think the game should be played) and yes I am friends with them.

I mentioned banning people using a number of things you could look at, yes stats was one of them, you just decided to bring up your kill ratio for some reason.

Yep my experience with my clan buddy is irrelevant. I was just answering what you were touching on; that If I was friends with someone who was accused of hacks and I myself thought they did aswell, I wouldnt defend them like you seem to think I would.

Yes maybe the majority of the server could name atleast 1 or 2 of the people Im talking about. Sad situation to be In, If im honest. Surely if it wasnt so outrageously unbalanced like it should be, this wouldnt be the case.

[Paco's Gun]

Ok... nevermind me trying to explain anything complex.

You still don't understand the difference between someone that has been caught cheating and someone that has not been caught cheating. That is what this whole thread is about. Feel free to replace "kill ratio" with whatever irrelevant statistic doesn't evoke a personalized defensive response.

Perhaps I should arrest all of the immigrants that I see tomorrow because I'm sure that they per capita commit more crimes. I have no proof of that theory, but I don't really need any. 'Cause they're mexicans, and all the white people like me know, mexicans are criminals.

Oh wait, that would be stupid, just like what you think should be done with the server. I do like the idea of banning you as a precedent though, especially since you have nothing in common with those you seek banning for, and you don't even play anymore anyway.

[W0lfy]

Fix Your Mods

[method']

Ok... nevermind me trying to explain anything complex.

You still don't understand the difference between someone that has been caught cheating and someone that has not been caught cheating. That is what this whole thread is about. Feel free to replace "kill ratio" with whatever irrelevant statistic doesn't evoke a personalized defensive response.

Perhaps I should arrest all of the immigrants that I see tomorrow because I'm sure that they per capita commit more crimes. I have no proof of that theory, but I don't really need any. 'Cause they're mexicans, and all the white people like me know, mexicans are criminals.

Oh wait, that would be stupid, just like what you think should be done with the server. I do like the idea of banning you as a precedent though, especially since you have nothing in common with those you seek banning for, and you don't even play anymore anyway.

Fair enough you believe I don’t know the difference between someone not caught cheating and someone who is caught because of the methodology I suggested...but I do.

I’m just not in denial that PB is going to do something and there are no hackers on ECGN.

The proof stares you in the face on Youtube. You lot can sit here denying that hacking isn’t occurring and doesnt impact the server every day but it does.

It may take several more years for the population of hacks on the server to grow, but it will while nothing is done to prevent it other than waiting for PB.

Just because I believe something should be done about it, doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate the scenario of someone who hasn’t been caught cheating and banned from a server being a bad thing...I blame the dated PunkBuster.

I’m not trying to be personal or defensive with my previous response on the kill ratio thing, so apologies if you believe so. I’ve no reason to be. It’s just there’s so many other statistics that could be looked at I wasnt sure what you were getting at mentioning it.

But lets forget about it You made some very valid and good points in this post to be fair.

I understand what your insinuating with your Mexican thing. Like you said you have no proof of that theory. I’ve seen proof there’s hacking occurring on ECGN, so I’m not theorising. I know there are people who’s other GUID’s are on the MBL on ECGN, so I’m not theorising (some of who may not be hacking anymore). There is a modern strategy in place to stop those few Mexicans who do actually cause crime, because lets face it just because you are mexican doesnt mean you are an angel, which unfortunatly makes ECGN a slightly different scenario.

The fact that I’ve suggested something should be done about it because PB is obsolete, in an effort to aid the longevity of the server & the game itself, is most definitely not stupid if you were to have any care for the game.

I think with whatI’ve written and the points ive tried to make, which apparently other people have expressed concern throughout other topics on the forum for years...along with having played the server for a very long time whilst making many friends there...leads me to believe I definitely have more in common with those regulars who play and care about the server than you may think.

Although I appreciate your point of view, was the insinuation that im stupid, cannot work out anything complex and the comment about just banning me really necessary. Even if what i have written you may disagree with theres no need to be insulting. Surely public forums are there for discussion not just to throw out abuse.

If you could possibly refrain from the analogys, it would help But i get your point However i do believe your analogy has modern strategies in place to prevent the use of a harsh methodology like the one ive suggested having to be used - Unfortunatly ECGN does not have that luxury.

The thread was not aimed at causing a stereotypical witch hunt, rather accepting theres nothing stopping hacking occuring on ECGN at the moment, there are hackers active on the server and maybe doing something other than rely on a dated PunkBuster to prevent it. Its genuinly a thread aimed at providing the harsh truth and possibly another vision to the dated PB.

Although I understand the point your making. I understand there is no evidence on specific players accused and its a harsh and original methodology which could go slightly wrong with a bad strategy and you may be banning innocent people but i dont believe this would happen if handled correctly by experienced administrators, and if handled correctly I believe the server and its players would prosper from it.

I will only be involved in the thread for a little longer because i dont think ive got through to the people that count and further discussion will just aggrevate or anger people i dont intend to.

[PappaBoner]

Lots and lots of smartasses. Who's the first smartass who wants their teeth kicked in? I'll be happy to oblige.

[method']

So you think im boring and a smartass ...in which case me next! I probably deserve it.

Seriously though I understand this thread may become tiresome to alot of you as the subject comes up atleast once a month. Ive got what I wanted off my chest.

[PappaBoner]

So you think im boring and a smartass ...in which case me next! I probably deserve it.

Seriously though I understand this thread may become tiresome to alot of you as the subject comes up atleast once a month. Ive got what I wanted off my chest.

Not you dude. You haven't made any smartass comments.

[method']

:lol: Not you dude. You haven't made any smartass comments.

Awww, I was hoping if I caused a little fuss you would retract the boring part:rotflmao::wall:

[nigel]

Fless, I'm not worried about being banned. But I appreciate the insult/compliment.

Method, I don't even understand your point anymore. We all understand PB is outdated. So I tell you take demos and watch them. You respond taht demos aren't 100% but than you advocate some system with "good enough admins" who can read into stats and ban people. The flaw you see in the established and reasonably effective system to evaluated suspected hackers is ten-fold as large in the system you advocate. Don't you see a system of whimsical banning will kill this game faster than setting up direct links to pb-proof hacks on the ecgn forum.

[method']

If you dont understand my points after ive tried to explain them in so much detail, theres nothing much more I can do sorry

You agree PB is out dated, in which case you may agree that it catches bots that are dated...probably 3-4 years old. I dont believe this system is working, or that effective anymore on this version.

I do believe if those who control the server put there heads together they could come up with an effective strategy that would certainly be more effective than the PB system in place at the moment.

I agree demos could be introduced into some kind of system such as the one set up in that website you gave me which could provide a more structured tactic on catching cheats. I just dont agree It will help that much on this version.

Yes i do think a small group of un biased, expereinced admins who would be set up to review players they think are hacking, and make a decision between them regarding certain players would be an effective strategy.

At the moment there is indication the group is too large, and cannot come to a decision on players. Im not saying the admins are poor or biased, im just saying set up a team that would focus solely on this topic...with the server interest at heart.

You could even come up with a system such as...This team of admins review 1 player they think could be possibly hacking every 3 months. They discuss between them why they assume this, and the effects this player has on the servers community and popularity when they are playing. And then they vote anonymously with the servers best interest at heart. (so the team would be an odd number).

There would be 4 players reviewed a year...you probably have 4 hackers atleast visit the server each year, whether they play regularly or not. I dont know that for fact, but i bet its close.

Im not suggesting whimsical banning at all. I honestly believe the only way you would kill the game or server faster was if you were to put say 5 complete biased, inexperienced plonkers who dont play that regularly in charge of that team...and review too many people too quickly.

You could try the methodology for a year and see how it works out...you would lose 4 people max.

Are you honestly suggesting the above is ten fold more flawed than waiting for a 4 year dated AI system to update (PB) when theres pretty much factual video evidence of hackers occupying the server on YouTube which for me indicates that hackers at minimum are visiting the server, and that if the above were to be put into effect for 1 year, it would have a detrimental effect and kill off the game faster than is already happening? You may do...but sorry I think your wrong.

edit: Say ECGN were to provide the whole of the above structure (including your website suggestion). I believe they would be doing something far more proactive than other servers...and it may even work out they attract more honest players who visit from versions such as 1.0 to play regularly because of it, and it may even make those already hacking the server not do it when they come back with their new GUID (my opinion those of you who have so many GUIDs are up to something...theres absolutly no valid reason to have as many as 15, even if you count the excuse of alias as it stinks of a key generator which at most is involved in the elimination process of providing and using suitable none detactable hacks or at least used to cover up traces of foul play...Ive had 2 GUIDs for 9 years and they have served me well).

Yes theres an element of risk like you suggest...but theres a strong chance of benefit if you were to provide a less tolerant strategy than a 4 year dated PB to the other servers out there. And there is no risk if you control the amount your taking properly.

[W0lfy]

The game is DEAD. These ideas could have worked five years ago. Now it is pointless to even discuss them.

[method']

The game is DEAD. These ideas could have worked five years ago. Now it is pointless to even discuss them.

They can still possibly work to ECGN's benefit now if well thought out and well executed, regardless of how late it is or how many people still play RTCW there is still a strong possibility it could attract players, or at least entice those who visit to stay longer.

Dont get me wrong your right that the game is very out of date and people have simply left it for more modernised games along with various other reasons.

But RTCW still has a strong community overall and a strong fan base for a 10 year old game, unfortunatly your correct it is depleting. Theres no logic in giving up on it though and just letting RTCW fade away.

If you compare it to other games its quite strong, seeing as it overshadows games released a year ago, such as that tripe, what was it called? ... wolfenstein.

How many competetive players came back to visit for a short while and have again since left when that was released I wonder. It would be an interesting statistic. I wouldnt be surprised if a small few of these players pop on to give the game another try now and again though.

My point is there are new players out there from other versions of the game to attract to the server (such as 1.0, 1.3, ET and wolfenstein). All im saying is although the game is dying theres no reason not to make an effort to preserve ECGN's community longevity and perhaps make it prosper by trying to offer those who play the server and those who havnt yet a possible solution to the reason why a large percentage of people have left and continue to leave the game.

[caffeine]

method this seems like a lot of effort on your part for someone who 'quit playing ecgn last year'...

[method']

method this seems like a lot of effort on your part for someone who 'quit playing ecgn last year'...

Agreed. Which is why im disappointed the thread was so easily dismissed.

Although I quit playing last year I will admit I have popped on ECGN once or twice and visited 1.0. But it lasted for about 15 minutes. Im sure you can check the logs to see if Ive been active.

Why i gave up:

I do believe there are hackers all over the place on RTCW, including ECGN...there are facts out there that can prove that. My opinion is the games fun competetive multiplayer experience on pretty much every good server left is being spoiled by clear hackers.

This is mainly because those who control servers are far too dependant on the dated PB. They are unwilling to depend on human intelligence (i admit theres also human error) and would rather rely on the dated AI that is PB.

Which for a gamer who likes to have fun whilst enjoying the competetive side of the server, isnt really good enough. Although i know there are players out there who are far better than me, I can not understand why such clear hacking is so easily tolerated through shear denial.

Because I believe after 9 years people should know by now human players can only achieve so much ability through practice due to the games engine and how its was intended to work (some a little more so than others i admit)... and that the ability this minority is representing is so unbalanced and illogical, its clearly artificial...an analogy would be Usain Bolt doing the 100m in 3 seconds and not being drug tested afterwards because people actually believed he was that fast.

Why the thread and precedent:

I guess after 9 years I have developed a passion for the game. I do want whats best for it. It really annoys me that there was nothing proactive done about it when I did play.

I find it such a shame that those who do own servers on RTCW continue to allow them to be violated by hackers who are continuously complained about because they cant prove they are doing it.

Through pm I recieved a request on who i think these people are (which i will not list because i trust the server admins). Apparently if someone playing ECGN has too many complaints something is done about it. This minority Im refering to have been complained about for years by many many people, publicly and privately... lets be honest nothing is done about it.

I guess i thought i could suggest a precedent for the best server out there and do something that might actually help the game. I dont want to be banned, dont take that lightly i love ECGN and the community within it.

I guess i was hoping those who matter would view the thread and the precedent as an example of how strongly some people wished something was done about it.

[picmip]

So if Rem doesn't get banned when he's been called out more than anyone in the history of the game then how can we expect them to ban others.

I am certain of about 4 more hackers, but I can't even call them out because I want to make sure that Rem takes the most heat and I don't get into trouble for calling out "too many" hackers.

Sad.