UN on Feb. 5th

[[Ritchie]]

I hate to say this, but I'm going to:

It sickens me to watch ppl wishing for war on Iraq. The ppl who want the war are sitting safe on another continent where Iraq's bombs will never fall.

Would you still be exited if you were living next door with half your country already ruined by previous attacks?

You are talking about punishing 1000's of innocent people because of one man.

You will only breed more hate for the west in a country that has known only war, and justify the deeds of the dictator that will replace Saddam.

I agree with the thinking that Iraq poses a threat if they posess non conventional weapons, but there are other ways to remove the b@stard, ways that will show the middle-east the west is not their enemy.

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Why is the man with the button the first one in the cosy shelter?

[[Ritchie]]

Powell also has a pretty cool picture of bigfoot and Elvis Jigging it up on the moon.

Remember, they say the first casualty of war is innocence? It is not, the first casualty of war, is the Truth.

Here's my plan: Give Iraq and Afghanistan Seven-Eleven's and walmarts. Build schools and hospitals, replace their leaders with western educated ones who are loyal to the west. Educate and feed the people of these nations. Homes, warm food and comfort will win the war.

But where's the fun in that?

[{CN}Doomfarer]

The cleanest method wouldn't be the best. We run an assassination on the boy and you KNOW all of middle eastern Islam will point and say, "SEE!!! The western pigs are not to be trusted."

Am I thrilled about what is going to go down in Iraq? No, but I have talked to people who KNOW some of the shit that we "the public" may not see or hear, even after we presented all that info to the UN.

I personally wish life could work a bit like one of Clancy's novels...

All I have heard from Afganistan is how much we are trying to improve daily life there. How succesfull are we? Sure can't trust the media to tell us the truth. Still, I believe after all the hell that has been happening there the last 18 months, and previously, that we (collectively not just USA) have made a positive impact on many lives. Does it outweigh the negative impacts? It would take a better man than me to say.

Going into Iraq AGAIN... I know there are reasons I don't know of. I know, he is without a doubt, no positive service to his people. I know he is an agressive dictator with a past history of international agression. I believe he is storing and creating weapons of mass destruction. Do I feel he threatens me personally? No. Do I feel he is an international threat? Yes. Do we have the right to go in and remove him from power? ... I don't know, simple as that. So I trust to those with all the information that I don't have. And I pray I am not mistaken.

Only after he is gone do I think we (the west) can have any kind of positive influence in Iraq. And only then if we don't decide to leave the mess and go fight somewhere else. We are showing we have the strength and will to make war. I want to see more proof that we have the strength, will, and compassion to be there to clean up afterwards.

[[Ritchie]]

Agreed, Doom.

My plan was just an opinion, and an opinion is neither right nor wrong.

Saddam must go. He has proven his intentions the last time. But as long as there is so much hatred for the west peace will never reign. so everytime Iraq develops a weapon, regardless of the leader, we bomb them? How can we continually justify that.

We must win their trust, but I don not know how.

We could throw in a MacDonalds?

[Kristov Profile ICQ]

Ritchie, if it was as simple as giving the people of Iraq goodies, hey, that would be great. And if replacing Saddam was as easy as getting the people of Iraq to simply vote him out of office, great! However, the last Iraqi elections were just last year(October) and 99.96% or so of the population voted, and Saddam got every single vote. The .04% that didn't vote, well..no one can say exactly what their reasons were, as these people no longer exist on the face of the planet. Anyone not voting in Iraq faces excecution or detainment followed by excecution, and anyone not voting for Saddam gets shot on the spot(and that's not an exaggeration). Replacing Saddam with someone else isn't an option without the use of force, it really is that simple.

Do I like the idea of war? No, not here, not in Iraq, not anywhere. Do I support the US Gov in their quest...yes, actually, I do. I don't LIKE it, but I understand it and the reasoning behind it, sadly. The US itself has nothing to fear, directly, from Saddam and his programs. The entire Middle East, parts of Asia and Africa and Europe, they have reason to fear his programs. The US only has to fear the AQ operatives trained by Iraq, but we're already aware of that and working on that problem.

So, what exactly does the US stand to gain from removing Saddam? Other then a little more stability in a very unstable region, not much other then loss of US men and women in combat. The potential freedom of millions of oppressed people in the area. The removal of the threat of massive loss of lives due to chemical/bioweapons being used on the people of the region, very few of whom actually mean jack squat to the US as a nation, and mean nothing, literally, to me and mine personally.

It's not about what threatens the US or even most of the globe, it's about protecting those who have no protection or any way to change something they do want to change. It's about trying to keep the peace while a rabid animal is holding the keys to weapons of mass destruction and he literally doesn't care WHO he uses them on, enemies or friends.

I detest war, or violence in any form for that matter. My martial arts training, the way I was raised, and my religon all put emphasis on non-violent solutions to any problem. However, they also teach that sometimes, when all other options have been tried, violence IS the only possible solution, regretable as it may be.

[COL.BUKKAKE]

Just listen to Metallica's "Dont Tread on Me" all you need to fire you up

[[Ritchie]]

I suspect anyone that voted against Sadam isn't around either. And I'm sure the voting was democratic.

We are all in agreement that Sadam must go, we disagree on the implimentation of that course of action.

Last time the UN tried to remove him, Our bombs did not exactly hit their targers. In fact, we had difficulty disserning between Iraq and Brittish tanks. Even now in Afghanistan, there is an aiming problem.

If the US can say with certainty they can bomb only MILITARY targets, I say go for it.

[[Ritchie]]

On a personal note, I'm encouraged that people dont want the war for the wrong reasons.

[COL.BUKKAKE]

Too friggin bad, people get killd in war, it sucks but its a fact. This is something the US has to do, and I hope we dont stop with Iraq. We need to finish these bastards off, I'm sick of non US people tellin us what is good for us. 3,000 people were burned, jumped and crushed to death WTC, amazin how we forghet that shit *(worse than Pearl Harbor) poor people just going to work, and they get a plane shoved up their ass(mothers,fathers,sisters, brothers,sons and daughters) I know a couple people that havent even been found. So to all you foreign nations jump on board or go F yourselves, and if we come out of it with some oil, great, I wouldnt mind spendin 10 cents on the gallon......friggin French, the only thing they do well is wave the white flag.

And these poor people of that region you say, are friggin animals..........Heres a story out of Iran, A girl is molested by her Uncle. The father chops his daughter's head off because she has shamed the family, and these are the kinds of people that should be reasoned with? The only thing they understand is force, they are like children that need to be spanked or they will walk all over you. Take the cancer out now before it spreads.

[COL.BUKKAKE]

Just heard on the news, that by 2018 Latino Americans will be the majority in the USA.......So scratch what I had said in previous reply......anybody know how to get to Sweden, screw this country:D

[El Cid]

Bukake showed a lot of intelligence and enlightenment; more so than the liberal anti-war crowd. Many nations outside of Europe and the America's are literally stuck in the 8th century. That means tribal borders, custom, and BACKWARDNESS mean more to them than reason. These are people that circumcise their female children because the men in their society are too untrusting to believe their girls can actually think for themselves. These are people that have little value for human life . Im sick of Canadians, with their bullshit liberal "My shit dont stink" attitude feeling it is their right to lecture US citizens. You partake from the wealth and benefits that the US economy produces. Why dont you go border Mexico if your so friggin unhappy. The UNITED STATES (emphasizing the word united) has created a robust materially prosperous society where law, private property, decency, and goodwill are universally expected of all citizens. Personally I think that is a great thing. But from what I hear from Canadians these days you would think we were the enemies of the world. Im sick of having my time wasted by Canadian ego trip speeches.

[El Cid]

Also thankyou to Ruci for posting the Powell outline. If your Canadian than please accept my apology for grouping you with the idiots I was refering to. Of course not all Canadians are feeding me their ego trip, and I am guilty of the very bad habit of essentializing about what Canadians are, when they do vary.

[Doug the Unforgiven]

Good words Kristov, Bukkake, and El Cid.

Too bad the world's ills can't ge cured with sugar and honey. Anyone suggesting putting a McD's in Iraq would have to conquer Iraq first, as long as Hussein is there. Capitalism is nothing when a brutal dictator uses the profits to build more palaces. Even China isn't that corrupt.

Oil, oil, oil. Why is that all we here from the panzies? What they hate to admit is that they don't want to go to war for the very same reason - oil. Oil and business deals with Iraq (read France and Germany). So what's the difference?

Support a brutal dictator so you can get your oil. That's so well-reasoned and compassionate.

I won't even dignify the "we're safe here" argument. No one remembers the Pentagon or the WTC. No one remembers the anthrax.

Sad how history can be so easily forgotten.

[El Cid]

I really have nothing to add except to lash out against all the people who hate Americans. Those people stink.

[[Ritchie]]

That was a highly articulate outburst El Cid, but I'm not Canadian, I'm only up here studying. In case you didnt know, the UK, my country, is on the side of the US.

And in case you didnt read the last part, I actually am for the bombing of Iraq.

As for Canadians being Liberals, you are spot on. And I'm sick of their lefty whinging.

As for the MacD's obviously not serious.