Everybodys Real Picture!!
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- SilverSurfer
-
- Posts: 1194
- Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2002 3:26 am
- Location: Belgium / Leuven
by SilverSurfer » Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:07 pm
Originally posted by Keekanoo
Ship....awesome pics. Can I borrow those jaws of life to attack something in the back of my fridge?
Silver surfer... c'mon..up a pic or two. And Cow too! Moooo!
As for rapier combat and agility...The longer, lighter weapons of the 17th century (think muskateer swords) were designed to strike with the point and at greater distance than the old heavy long swords, short swords, bastard swords, etc. It became a point of skill during competition not to kill the opponent (there was an insurgance of nasty rules about maiming and killing and such by the various Kings--all their 'nobility' were getting their limbs hacked off or their skulls caved in during silly bar-room tiffs) but to leave your mark upon him. Think Zorro and his 'Z' mark. So, Ship, you can bring your jaws of life but you'll only walk away with 'Keekanoo' stitched into your for-head
i have posted a pic of mine in the earlier pages of this thread
don't think im shy big boy :p
by ShipWreck » Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:59 pm
hehe yeah sure keek there slow and heavy, but do the job. there also good if u have a stubbern can that wont open
- Rule of Wrist
by Rule of Wrist » Sat Sep 20, 2003 4:00 pm
Originally posted by Keekanoo
The Samuri, though carrying less in weight of body armor than the European traditional Knight (they used hardened leathers, bamboo, etc in their armor, Europeans used steel) is still weighed down by around 40 lbs of extra 'stuff'. Doesn't sound like much but after full combat for several minutes, that kind of weight starts to tell. A good fencer pitted against a good Samuri would win--as long as he can avoid the heavy slashes. Again, the rapier is designed to kill/maim with the tip. If I hold it out straight it extends about 4 1/2 feet from my body (including arm). The Samuri has to close within 2 feet to get a slash in. That gives me 2 feet of impaling distance....
I wasn't talking about the "knights" that wore armor in each culture, but the samurai who wandered the countryside vs the "gentleman fencers" who were around in a time of relative peace... these types didn't wear armor, they typically just had the clothes on their back and their weapon of choice...
Also, samurai were trained to fight against many types of weapons: spears, staffs, etc.... and against many different styles... so I don't buy the distance alone theory...
It's kind of like picking a winner in a boxing match by who has the longer reach...
The length of a weapon can be a disadvantage, as well... get inside and you are defenseless...
So let's hear a better argument, professor Keek
- Keekanoo
by Keekanoo » Sat Sep 20, 2003 6:26 pm
Rule of Wrist thrust with....
"I wasn't talking about the "knights" that wore armor in each culture, but the samurai who wandered the countryside vs the "gentleman fencers" who were around in a time of relative peace... these types didn't wear armor, they typically just had the clothes on their back and their weapon of choice...
Also, samurai were trained to fight against many types of weapons: spears, staffs, etc.... and against many different styles... so I don't buy the distance alone theory...
It's kind of like picking a winner in a boxing match by who has the longer reach...
The length of a weapon can be a disadvantage, as well... get inside and you are defenseless...
So let's hear a better argument, professor Keek ..."
Rule, as you didn't offer specific parameters, I assumed a traditional 'style' of each combatant. A samuri wearing a bakini and armed with a heat-seaking HE missile will likely win against a 'traditional' fencer. Mayhaps m'Lord would like to suggest the weapons and martial arts experience of said 'roving samuri', thus allowing me a more defined hypothesis upon the matter.
I can only go on my own training in the field, which does include training with an Olympic coach, that all things being equal, the person with a shorter rapier, or a slashing weapon is quite hindered against an equally skilled oponent carrying a 'normal-length' shlagger blade.
And you are quite right that IF the person with the shorter weapon can get 'under' the opponents longer sword, they have a distinct advantage. It's getting there that is the problem. I periodically fence with a guy who's blade is nearly a foot longer than mine. If I'm a 7 out of 10 on the skill scale, he's about a 5, yet consistantly he manages to tag me as I attempt to get 'under' his blade. He only needs to disengage a well-timed sweep-parry combined with a back-step to have his weapon on-line to my scalp. Even if he misses, the back-step still puts him at length. I need to compensate with a full lunge, step-lunge, cross step etc to gain distance--all of which he can easily match.
The fencing group I teach (actually I stopped running it about a month ago) works along-side guys who do fight with long-swords and various other slashing weapons. We've done cross over experiments proving that the longer, thinner weapons we use do kill/maim a lot easier than their style.
And Rule, I'm not a professor, just happens to be an area I know a few things about
"I wasn't talking about the "knights" that wore armor in each culture, but the samurai who wandered the countryside vs the "gentleman fencers" who were around in a time of relative peace... these types didn't wear armor, they typically just had the clothes on their back and their weapon of choice...
Also, samurai were trained to fight against many types of weapons: spears, staffs, etc.... and against many different styles... so I don't buy the distance alone theory...
It's kind of like picking a winner in a boxing match by who has the longer reach...
The length of a weapon can be a disadvantage, as well... get inside and you are defenseless...
So let's hear a better argument, professor Keek ..."
Rule, as you didn't offer specific parameters, I assumed a traditional 'style' of each combatant. A samuri wearing a bakini and armed with a heat-seaking HE missile will likely win against a 'traditional' fencer. Mayhaps m'Lord would like to suggest the weapons and martial arts experience of said 'roving samuri', thus allowing me a more defined hypothesis upon the matter.
I can only go on my own training in the field, which does include training with an Olympic coach, that all things being equal, the person with a shorter rapier, or a slashing weapon is quite hindered against an equally skilled oponent carrying a 'normal-length' shlagger blade.
And you are quite right that IF the person with the shorter weapon can get 'under' the opponents longer sword, they have a distinct advantage. It's getting there that is the problem. I periodically fence with a guy who's blade is nearly a foot longer than mine. If I'm a 7 out of 10 on the skill scale, he's about a 5, yet consistantly he manages to tag me as I attempt to get 'under' his blade. He only needs to disengage a well-timed sweep-parry combined with a back-step to have his weapon on-line to my scalp. Even if he misses, the back-step still puts him at length. I need to compensate with a full lunge, step-lunge, cross step etc to gain distance--all of which he can easily match.
The fencing group I teach (actually I stopped running it about a month ago) works along-side guys who do fight with long-swords and various other slashing weapons. We've done cross over experiments proving that the longer, thinner weapons we use do kill/maim a lot easier than their style.
And Rule, I'm not a professor, just happens to be an area I know a few things about
- Rule of Wrist
by Rule of Wrist » Sat Sep 20, 2003 6:51 pm
Just giving you a hard time
I'm not much of an expert on the intricacies of weapons combat, but have a fair amount of experience with unarmed combat... so I can't really speak about the merits of swordplay styles. If I came up against an expert swordsman, I'd probably grab a gun. Never bring a (big) knife to a gunfight is a wise old saying.
From what I have read about samurai, though, I wouldn't want to face an expert. Some of those guys back then were GOOD... fast, strong, skilled, and cold as the driven snow.
If stories are to be believed, they could draw and cut and resheath before you could react... some also fought with two swords at once... although I do know that a lot of true european fencers fought with a knife of sorts in their other hand...
As far as your argument goes about slash vs stab... reminds me of the movie "Rob Roy"... the much smaller guy with the rapier is just mauling the bigger guy with the broadsword, until the bigger guy grabs the rapier (cutting his hand badly) and hacks the guy in two... excellent scene
It's all academic anyway. Most of the ancient samurai techniques have been lost over time... all that remains are very basic techniques compared to what used to exist... a fascinating subject though...
As far as the samurai with the HE heat-seeker... well that's just silly... everyone knows that they only had HE rocket launchers in the 1600s, not heat-seekers...
I'm not much of an expert on the intricacies of weapons combat, but have a fair amount of experience with unarmed combat... so I can't really speak about the merits of swordplay styles. If I came up against an expert swordsman, I'd probably grab a gun. Never bring a (big) knife to a gunfight is a wise old saying.
From what I have read about samurai, though, I wouldn't want to face an expert. Some of those guys back then were GOOD... fast, strong, skilled, and cold as the driven snow.
If stories are to be believed, they could draw and cut and resheath before you could react... some also fought with two swords at once... although I do know that a lot of true european fencers fought with a knife of sorts in their other hand...
As far as your argument goes about slash vs stab... reminds me of the movie "Rob Roy"... the much smaller guy with the rapier is just mauling the bigger guy with the broadsword, until the bigger guy grabs the rapier (cutting his hand badly) and hacks the guy in two... excellent scene
It's all academic anyway. Most of the ancient samurai techniques have been lost over time... all that remains are very basic techniques compared to what used to exist... a fascinating subject though...
As far as the samurai with the HE heat-seeker... well that's just silly... everyone knows that they only had HE rocket launchers in the 1600s, not heat-seekers...
- SilverSurfer
-
- Posts: 1194
- Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2002 3:26 am
- Location: Belgium / Leuven
by SilverSurfer » Sun Sep 21, 2003 5:19 am
this was a year ago so ill make a new one as soon as i get the time
a diner at my parents home
vacasion with friends
newer pics coming
a diner at my parents home
vacasion with friends
newer pics coming
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